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InvisibleRavus
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America's Karma?
    #4489992 - 08/03/05 03:37 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

During the initial years after the discovery of plutonium, when its biological and physical properties were very poorly understood, a series of human radiation experiments were performed by the U.S. government and by private organizations acting on its behalf. From the time of April 1945 to July 1947, 18 men, women, and children were deliberately injected with solutions containing various concentrations of plutonium by doctors working with the Manhattan Project. Though the injections were only to occur in what were percieved by the doctors as terminally ill patients at the hospital, in at least one instance this was not the case and the injections, in all cases, were conducted without any kind of informed consent from the subjects of the experiment. The episode is considered today, to be a gross violation of human rights and of the Hippocratic Oath, and is widely regarded as one of the darkest chapters in 20th-century American medical history.




Quote:

Some states sterilized "imbeciles" for much of the 20th century. The US Supreme Court ruled in the 1927 Buck v. Bell case that the state of Virginia could sterilize those they thought unfit. The most significant era of eugenic sterilization was between 1907 and 1963 when over 64,000 individuals were forcibly sterilized under eugenic legislation in the United States. A favorable report on the results of the sterilizations in California, by far the most sterilizing state, was published in book form by the biologist Paul Popenoe and was widely cited by the Nazi government as evidence that wide-reaching sterilization programs were feasible and humane. When Nazi administrators went on trial for war crimes in Nuremberg after World War II they justified the mass-sterilizations (over 450,000 in less than a decade) by citing the United States as their inspiration.




And on to MKULTRA, and on to the American detention camps during World War II...

Yet we're the lone superpower of the world today. We outlived our largest threat, the U.S.S.R., and militarily are at the top of the world, including but not limited to us having the #1 nuclear stockpile. Evidently there is no karma, only domination, and America rules.

:usa:


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Ravus]
    #4490014 - 08/03/05 03:41 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:

Or we haven't yet reaped what we have sowed.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Redstorm]
    #4490028 - 08/03/05 03:44 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

We definitely haven't reaped all of what we have sowed yet.

Besides, karma isn't what most people think it is. It's not the universe getting revenge. The universe has no such stupid human emotions. It's just the laws of physics that we don't understand yet, that's all. Balance. We must seek the balance. Or it will seek us.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Redstorm]
    #4490034 - 08/03/05 03:45 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe karma wants to wait until a few centuries after all the victims, families of the victims and basically anybody who would care are long gone? :wink:


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Ravus]
    #4490039 - 08/03/05 03:46 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Or maybe karma is a very personal system of checks and balances that is like an engraving upon someone's soul of their progress and evolution


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4490054 - 08/03/05 03:49 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

It's just the laws of physics that we don't understand yet, that's all.




:doh:

You can't really compare the stability-seeking of physics to the Darwinism of biology. I can't see karma and Darwinism both acting on the same organism, in this case humans, seeing as they basically contradict each other.

If you accept evolution, then what is karma? We were once microscopic bacteria, and evolved over billions of years from simple cells into conscious humans. Where did karma come in? Or did the bacteria too experience it?

Interesting concept, but I don't really see the evidence, and by Occam's razor, without evidence for karma, Darwinism seems to explain the interactions between animals and societies fine.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Ravus]
    #4490068 - 08/03/05 03:52 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Karma IS evolution foo

Recognize

:mrt:

or at least.. karma is the process by which evolution occurs?


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Ravus]
    #4490080 - 08/03/05 03:54 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

If there is a starting point for karma no one knows where that was. That being said, hopefully we Americans have simply canceled out the good karma we had coming to us with our transgressions.


--------------------
"You might not be aware of this, but there are a lot of dickheads on the Internet." - D. Wong


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4490150 - 08/03/05 04:10 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

or at least.. karma is the process by which evolution occurs?




So karma is Darwinism? Doesn't Darwinism follow natural selection while karma follows a spiritual version of the Just World phenonema?

I believe karma is a type of faith-based placebo, a way of justifying the world in a better light. When something bad happens, you can use karma to help explain it, and likewise when something good happens. Yet good and bad actions only exist in the human interpretation of actions; looking at the whole of evolution, there is only survival and reproduction guiding biology, not karma or the soul.

Where is karma stored? In the spin of an electron, or in the quarks of a neutron? In the vibration of an 11 dimensional string?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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InvisibleCowgold
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Ravus]
    #4490168 - 08/03/05 04:14 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

kar?ma (k?rm)
n.
1. Hinduism & Buddhism The total effect of a person's actions and conduct during the successive phases of the person's existence, regarded as determining the person's destiny.
2. Fate; destiny.
3. Informal A distinctive aura, atmosphere, or feeling:

And you must ask yourself... can Fate change?

(what song is that? the one that says And you may ask yourself?)


--------------------
"You might not be aware of this, but there are a lot of dickheads on the Internet." - D. Wong


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Ravus]
    #4490236 - 08/03/05 04:25 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:

So karma is Darwinism? Doesn't Darwinism follow natural selection while karma follows a spiritual version of the Just World phenonema?

I believe karma is a type of faith-based placebo, a way of justifying the world in a better light. When something bad happens, you can use karma to help explain it, and likewise when something good happens. Yet good and bad actions only exist in the human interpretation of actions; looking at the whole of evolution, there is only survival and reproduction guiding biology, not karma or the soul.






No that's not my perception of karma. Good and bad are subjective polarities we humans attach to perceived events. You only see survival and reproduction because you only choose to view the surface. There is a whole universe of patterns and that is of evolution.. karma is not what is good or bad.. karma is the balancing force between gravity and magnetism.. it is the yin and the yang of the universe.. the whirlpool along which evolution comes to being..

Quote:

Where is karma stored? In the spin of an electron, or in the quarks of a neutron? In the vibration of an 11 dimensional string?




you could say it is 'stored' as a universal force in every particle. I don't think that my view of karma is in alignment with the traditional view of karma. but that's about as well as I can explain it.


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4490262 - 08/03/05 04:30 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Once again people, "karma" = Just World hypothesis.


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: DNKYD]
    #4490724 - 08/03/05 06:02 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

karma is not some kind of magical justice.

its cause and effect.

it has nothing to do with morality or good and bad (though in an offhanded way, it has something to do with everything, ideas like that included).

karma is not spiritual or cosmic retribution.

it is difficult to explin, at least by me, what karma is. but its easy to explain what it is not.


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Todcasil]
    #4490739 - 08/03/05 06:09 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

indeed good sir!


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Shroomism]
    #4490766 - 08/03/05 06:20 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

how you shroomism?  your presence would be welcome this afternoon, as i need someone to bounce my suffering off of.

peace

:heart:


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Todcasil]
    #4490804 - 08/03/05 06:30 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

well perhaps you should AIM it up


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Ravus]
    #4490832 - 08/03/05 06:39 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

And on to MKULTRA, and on to the American detention camps during World War II...

Let's not forget the Bastille Saint-Gitmo detainees held without charges, without access to friends or family, without access to representation, without access to the courts...


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Ravus]
    #4490939 - 08/03/05 07:10 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Just wait until China's a superpower. Shit's gonna hit the fan eventually.


--------------------


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: America's Karma? [Re: Silversoul]
    #4490947 - 08/03/05 07:12 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Just wait until China's a superpower. Shit's gonna hit the fan eventually.




ive been saying this for years


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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