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A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card
    #4469030 -

hi all, i know that this is a bit off topic, but tplease bear with me.
We are going to be promoting at Hempfest in seattle in late august, right before the big cyan season up there.

i know that there are some very deadly lookalikes, if memory serves me correctly i think that galerina autumnulos (sp) is the big look alike.

i brought up the idea to the admins and i would like to get some info on the lookalikes and perhaps an Identification guide so that we can help save some lives! and keep those lookalikes in the ground where they wont do any harm


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: ZippoZ]
    #4469298 -

As a local can I please PLEASE express some legitimate concern?

I pick these specimens every year, and every year the local law learns more and more about them-- the extreme of which can be felt down by the SW coast for Azures.

Have you ever been to Hempfest? It is PRIMARILY high school kids--*****under 18***** and also FULL OF COPS-- the people who DO NOT need to learn about websites teaching high school kids how to pick mushrooms around the city.

Please think about these points, they are to be taken VERY seriously--the Seattle community is MY HOME and I'll be damned if this website f*cks up my local picking


--------------------
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows."


Puget Sound Mycological Society

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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: Psilygirl]
    #4469347 -

how long did it take for dancesafe to become respected? how many lives have they saved? do the math. i don't think something with shroomery.org printed on it should be distributed publicaly, but lookalike awareness needs to be promoted. i've met too damned many kids willing to eat anything they find that they think is a psilocybe who don't even know what a spore print is and expect the mushroom to bruise purple. it is an absolute worder peole don't die more often and Galerina deaths will hasten the crackdown far faster than a publication promoting safety.

the way i see things is that something like this should not say shroomery, but certainly should be done.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: canid]
    #4469371 -

but things like this DO exist!

They exist in ALL field guides!! Even Paul Stamets popular "Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World"

The info is even ON THIS SITE!

You will never be able to stop someone who doesnt seek the proper info from pickign the wrong thing.

The only thing these "cards" will cause is more kids picking and more cops knowing about it.

The issue here is that Hempfest is high school kids as the MAJORITY and TONS of cops... think about it... please.... this affects me personally and my community and I think it's a poor idea to affect local Seattle pickers.... please consider us and our opinions, please.


--------------------
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows."


Puget Sound Mycological Society

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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: Psilygirl]
    #4469463 -

i'm sorry to disagree, but i feel that even the 15 year old kid who wants to pick mushrooms should have the best access to the tools that could save his life as may be.

the cops know about this site. we have a no minors policy for a reason, but if someone is willing to risk handing out unaffiliated information cards to people who might otherwise not get the information, i would have to be in support.

what is the alternative? PMOTW is a great publication, but how many newbs who first come here have ever heard of it? this site is an outstandingly great resource, but how many prospective new mushroom hunters know about us? there are and will always be those who don't. i'm sure you'll even agree that minors without enough common sense not to do something stupid even knowing about this site is a liability.

i understand the issues attending public awareness about psilocybian mushroom hunting. i understand the problem with the increase in both numbers of hunters and people busted eacdh year. this issue is one that promotes responsibility. it will draw attention, but less so than some kid dying. we can't keep everyone from being ignorant, but i think we *must* be seen to be trying.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: ZippoZ]
    #4469510 -

Anyone picking azurescens will tell you that in the last couple years not only have officials come to recognize mushroom picking but actively try and enforce the laws against it. It has become a serious issue for anyone picking. The state parks in November and December, when noone is camping from 35* weather, bring in extra rangers from slower regions of the state to catch pickers. There are typically 4 or 5 rangers patrolling the small area with nothing to do all day but look for pickers.
I have never mentioned this because I didn't really want to reveal anything about myself but last season I was arrested with a friend for picking Azures. A little about us.. He is in his early 40's and I am in my mid 20's niether one of us look anything like typical* mushroom pickers, my girlfriend makes fun of me for looking like a frat boy. Niether one of us were doing anything suspicious at the moment, just walking, we were actually done for the day. But they confronted us anyways - why else would anyone be in 35* weather is there reaction. It is bad, I have seen them confront moms with their children and ask to search their bags. We were fortunate/smart enough to be able to not have anything illegal on us but they still had us handcuffed for an hour and a half while the other three rangers scoured the park looking for some kind of evidence. While we were handcuffed one ranger was continually questioning us trying to get us to say something and while he was doing this he asked if "we were from one of those shroom websites."

I feel fortunate enough to live in an area where the mushroom scene is low-key and I feel safe picking in public without having to look over my shoulder all the time. Hempfest is full of police just wandering around. If you want to advertise for the website, so be it, but when you are advertising Seattle's mushroom scene, advertising to cops where to look for hunters, when to look for hunters, what they'll be doing and what they'll be picking because this is all information that would be on your flier, I can't help but think THIS IS CRAZY!
I would really appreciate not having this scene destroyed as it has elsewhere. Yes, this information is all public and can be found easily but do we really need to package it up with a pretty pink bow and hand it over?

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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: @cro]
    #4469544 -

does anyone else even see that the act of harvesting natural resources from an national or state park wher it is ilegal to do so even with legal resources in the first place is a contributing factor to this increased awareness in our activities? i don't' harvest *any* resources from the parks system where it is prohibited, i hunt on public lands that are not subject to such strict resource conservation and i now have no trouble with the rangers.

when i hunt unrestricted public lands in the fall, i'm hunting edibles aswell. i usualy have a pack full of my collections with me, can explain to a cop what they are, thier cullinary value and sometimes even get them interested. this reenforces the cop's notion that there are many reasons to be out, even many reasons to be picking mushrooms and that to assume someone is doing something wrong right off the bat is foolish. if the same where to happen in a state park, i'd still be breaking the law collecting my edibles and i wouold be reenforcing the rangers' impression that people don't respect the parks system and it's rules.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

Edited by concretefeet (07/29/05 02:34 PM)

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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: canid]
    #4469591 -

concretefeet said:
i'm sorry to disagree, but i feel that even the 15 year old kid who wants to pick mushrooms should have the best access to the tools that could save his life as may be.


And you're going to get this from a flyer?
If anything my guess is it will lead to a false sense of security. They'll think they know what they're doing and become what you're trying to prevent.

Quote:
this issue is one that promotes responsibility. it will draw attention, but less so than some kid dying. we can't keep everyone from being ignorant, but i think we *must* be seen to be trying.


How many people have died in the last 5 years from misIding a galerina as a psilocybin mushroom? ZERO!
I can only think that this will change that.

Edited by @cro (07/29/05 02:43 PM)

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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: @cro]
    #4469640 -

if all they are going to get is a flyer [providing it is well written and it's provisions for identifying P. syanescens are sound], then yes, i most certainly do think they have better than nothing.

the deaths, as i said are rare, but they are amazingly so when you consider how many people i have met who will and have eaten *any* mushroom that they think looks like a cyan or even anything someone tells them is a psilocybian mushroom.

the fact is that the driving force behind so many kids getting into the hobby is alive and well, and the more we can do to help them be responsible the better off they and we are.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: @cro]
    #4469675 -

do you have a better idea? something needs to improve. are you going to continue to try to shoot down my every oppinion or are you going to try to offer a solution? because all i'm hearing sounds like narrow minded self interest and attempts to justify views on protection of a resource for your own ends that belongs to us all.

if i'm misreading this, and i'm sure i am, then it is because i'm starting to get heated. if we are toing to shoot down this idea, we need to pull together and find one that is feasible and responsible. you want to be able to still hunt a few years from now, i want to still be able to hunt a few years from now, and i hope we all want others to be able to learn of and respect this gift that is given us all.

please forgive me for ranting.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: ZippoZ]
    #4469769 -

I do not want it to seem like I am attacking you personally, and @cro too.  I think that promoting safe picking is a brilliant idea!  People have been trying to do so forever-- Paul Stamets, even our own mjshroomer.  i just think doing it at Hempfest in particular is a BAD place to do it.  It's full of kids MOSTLY under 18 and TONS of cops... I just don't want the shroomery getting in trouble and I don't want the info falling into the wrong hands... since, after all, the mission of promoting is OVER 18 ONLY... correct?

I don't have any better ideas, there is alot of information out there for those who seek it, I just think it is unwise to do it at Hempfest...

Maybe something not really talking about P. cyans or Galerina's specifically could be used, maybe something like "Interested in picking mushrooms?  BE SAFE!  Try these resources!" and list the shroomery and various field guides or something.

I just hate the idea of drawing any more attention to the mushroom picking scene in Seattle than there already is, for the sake of myself and all the "old school" pickers :smile:  And i hope that concern is truly considered.  I am certain that other PNW pickers will chime in soon :tongue:


--------------------
"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows."


Puget Sound Mycological Society

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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: Psilygirl]
    #4469775 -

agreed.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: canid]
    #4469835 -

I'm really not trying to get you heated, I don't want it to be personal. I'm just disagreeing with you
concretefeet said:
do you have a better idea? something needs to improve.


This is what I disagree with. Why does something need to be done? We don't have a problem, last I checked.
Everything is great up here for us. I'm not trying to act selfishly, quite the contrary. I think there is plenty to go around for everyone, it's a weed. I'm not trying to hide the information from people who want to hunt. I'm not trying to discourage new pickers.
What I am worried about is how this information is distributed. Have you been to Hempfest? There are cops everywhere. I just don't want this scene to turn into so many others. I don't want new pickers to have to worry about cops staking out at parks, looking for them, as it is for many areas.
Like I said, promote the site if you wish. Then the people who want to learn can. It's the same information here as what would be on the flier but it provides that extra step, so only the interested will bother.

Peace

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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: @cro]
    #4469925 -

nothing needs to improve? there is no problem?

have you met some of the kids who are getting into picking? do you see the kind of newbs we get here even when they are at the place where all the info is at thier fingertips? have you seen the wway they hunt the coast each fall trampling the fragile dunes, flaunting thier irresponsibility in front of cops?

i don't expect you to agree with me and i don't expect you to see the same problems but i truely hope you see problems.

as you saw, i was getting unreasonable above, but i still think there are issues needing attention. as both you and psilygirl have said, hempfest is not the place i concede but i still think an unaffiliated source of information distributed via the right venue to the people who may yet become the ignorant hunters who trash the n. oregon coast or the puget sound's hunting grounds would help.

there have been many attempts to do so before and many have done much good, but there are still some things to be desired.

edit: i still think we need to be seen promoting responsibility in psilocybian mushroom hunting as much as or more than in cullinary mushroom hunting, insofar as we need to be seen at all.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

Edited by concretefeet (07/29/05 03:37 PM)

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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: @cro]
    #4469957 -

I agree with @cro and Psilygirl...hempfest is NOT the place for this proposed education to take place. It's true, Hempfest is flooded every year by 1 - young kids (plenty of kids under 18)..and 2 - Pigs.

Now if you ask me, young teenagers and Pigs (also known as police) are two types of people that really DONT need to be seeing fliers which spark an immediate interest/concern.

The bottom line, as @cro already pointed out, is that death by gallerina consumption is simply NOT any kind of problem here in Seattle...at least to the best of my knowledge its a virtually non-existent problem.

Local police becoming more and more educated on local psilocybe shroom picking, and hence cracking down on the activity to a disturbing extent...THAT is more legitimate, serious, and scarier of a problem, i think...Good people ending up in jail for picking local actives, is a MUCH more REAL concern than the idea that there are kids dying from eating gallerinas.

..MY 2 cents

Peace.


--------------------
"All but one man died. There at Bitter Creek. And they say he ran awayyy." - A little show called Branded

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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: canid]
    #4470009 -

I thought Seattle was the subject? That's what the flier is for.
I don't think there is a problem up here, yet. People aren't dying from misIDed mushrooms. Our habitat isn't being destroyed, for the most part. There are your occasional commercial pickers tearing up, transplanting and raping patches but I hardly see how advertising is going to help that. I agree with you it's unacceptable the way azure habitat is treated but I would think we would agree that advertising will only make this worse.

Of course, directing them to the site we can at least try and stress the importance of the habitat and proper ways of maintaining patches without destroying them.

I just feel a flier like this is akin to giving a kid keys to a car without educating them about what they're doing. Why not just direct them to the site where they can meet people and learn a lot more than what a flier can provide?

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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: @cro]
    #4470043 -

you are right that the sound is a different situation from the N. oregon dunes, but i have been under the impression for several years that the problem was a concern there aswell.

directing people to the shroomery will not help with the initiation of many of the new hunters i meet, as they average 14-16 years old, and while i always feel the desire, i do not direct them here due to the above mentioned liability. the shroomery may be properly disclaimed but this will not stop a kid's parents from raising hell about thier kid comming here.

i'm jumping around a bit and i'm sorry, but i view the issues this thread raises to be deeply intertwined.


--------------------



Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: canid]
    #4470097 -

Im from the Seattle area... and I don't think its a good ideo to do it there. I think its a good idea that we increase awareness, but not at hempfest for reasons already stated. Im just glad I have my spots to pick cyans without worry.


--------------------
Our body is light, we are immortal.
Our body is love, we are eternal.
Eternal..

Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, without judgment.

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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: BigBallZMaN]
    #4470208 -

You're right, it is beginning to be a problem.  One of my best patches last year, which was mainly covered in blackberries, was ravaged.  ALL the blackberries were literaly cut down and all vegetation protecting it was removed for better access.  It never flushed again, when there was still a few flushes left in it.

Seattle has a lot of homeless kids.  I think it may actually have the highest population in the country?  I have met a few people who, I would consider, are commercial pickers.  For the most part they are homeless kids who literally pick to feed themselves.  One even said he loves the fall, it's the season he eats like a king, I guess everything is relative.  :wink: There mentality is pick as much, as fast as you can.  Obviously, I would disagree with their methods and I tell them but that isn't a concern to them, what they're eating tonight is.  You can tell them that in the long run what they are doing is hurting themselves because these patches won't fruit again but they don't care, that isn't the concern.
There isn't much that is going to stop that (and whether we should or not is a whole other debate.) 

The people who are going to, conciously, rape patches and bring negative attention to the hobby, aren't the type of people who are going to be persuaded not to by a flier.  The most you can hope to do is keep the information from them.  The ones who accidentaly damage areas from ignorance can be set straight by talking to them or directing them here.

I think the majority of people are respectful but there is a small minority which can have huge effects and do.  I think the people who are genuinely interested in the hobby, who would do so with respect, would rather find a place like this where they can learn more than just be sent on there merry way with a flier.  The ones who just want to know how to pick mushrooms and make a buck are the ones that would rather just have the flier.  In my opinion, a flier isn't going to help this, at most it would make it worse.


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Re: A little help with the promotions, a cyan/lookalike id card [Re: @cro]
    #4470370 -

Yeah some dumb kids will just be dumb kids. I know this from occasionally running into them over the course of the season. I had one particular very prominent and well flourished patch of cyans that I frequented alot last season. Well one day I stumbled upon a couple teenage boys, who had unfortunately (for me) found my patch...well of course they were just ripping every single mushroom out of the ground, raping the mycelium network...most of what they were picking were just pinners  :eek: < the look on my face upon seeing this happen.

I somehow managed to not threaten them or scare them off, but instead took the teacher's approach and mindset, tried explaining to them that its just NOT ok to pick the pinners, that its uneccessary, and just flat out disrespectful to the shroom picking community. They vaguely nodded at me...and then KEPT ON PICKING ALL THE PINNERS! ughh how completely idiotic and stubborn some folks can be. They were obviously following their own intuition, hardly giving thought at all to what i was trying to tell them.

Incidentally, when i asked them a few questions, one of them mentioned that they'd been researching info here on the shroomery.  :rolleyes:

This is a sad, but very true and telling example of kids just being thoughtless, careless kids. They had the resources for shroom picking info. its all here on the site. Im sure they'd read plenty of do's and dont's of mushroom picking...but theyre KIDS. some kids will act foolishly regardless of rules and guidelines that theyve been exposed to.


--------------------
"All but one man died. There at Bitter Creek. And they say he ran awayyy." - A little show called Branded

Edited by Soularize (07/29/05 05:15 PM)

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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