Home | Community | Message Board


High Mountain Compost
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Mother Theresa... a different perspective.
    #4117003 - 05/01/05 01:25 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/mt.htm Source of info.

http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/hakeem.htm
Some excerpts;

******
Mother Teresa is thoroughly saturated with a primitive fundamentalist religious worldview that sees pain, hardship, and suffering as ennobling experiences and a beautiful expression of affiliation with Jesus Christ and his ordeal on the cross. Hitchens reports that in a filmed interview Mother Teresa herself tells of a patient suffering unbearable pain from terminal cancer: "With a smile, Mother Teresa told the camera what she told the patient: 'You are suffering like Christ on the cross. So Jesus must be kissing you.'" Apparently unaware that the response of the sufferer was a put-down, she freely related it: "Then please tell him to stop kissing me."
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/hitchens.htm
Going to bring out some excerpts, interesting read worth reading if you have the time.

******
FI: So the $50 million is a very small portion of her wealth?

HITCHENS: I think it's a very small portion, and we should call for an audit of her organization. She carefully doesn't keep the money in India because the Indian government requires disclosure of foreign missionary organizations funds.

I think the answer to questions about her wealth was given by her in an interview where she said she had opened convents and nunneries in 120 countries. The money has simply been used for the greater glory of her order and the building of dogmatic, religious institutions.

FI: So she is spending the money on her own order of nuns? And that order will be named after her?

HITCHENS: Both of those suggestions are speculation, but they are good speculation. I think the order will be named after her when she becomes a saint, which is also a certainty: she is on the fast track to canonization and would be even if we didn't have a pope who was manufacturing saints by the bushel. He has canonized and beatified more people than eight of his predecessors combined.

FI: Hence the title of your book: The Missionary Position.

HITCHENS: That has got some people worked up. Of the very, very few people who have reviewed this book in the United States, one or two have objected to that title on the grounds that it's "sophomoric." Well, I think that a triple entendre requires a bit of sophistication.

FI: And your television program in the United Kingdom was called "Hell's Angel."

HITCHENS: Yes, very much over my objection, because I thought that that name had not even a single entendre to it. I wanted to call it "Sacred Cow." The book is the television program expanded by about a third. The program was limited by what we could find of Mother Teresa's activities recorded on film. In fact, I was delighted by how much of her activity was available on film: for example, her praising the Albanian dictator Enver Hoxha. There is also film of her groveling to the Duvaliers: licking the feet of the rich instead of washing the feet of the poor. But "60 Minutes" demanded a price that was greater than the whole cost of the rest of the production. So we had to use stills.

FI: How did Mother Teresa become such a great symbol of charity and saintliness?

HITCHENS: Her break into stardom came when Malcolm Muggeridge - a very pious British political and social pundit - adopted her for his pet cause. In 1969, he made a very famous film about her life - and later a book called Something Beautiful for God. Both the book and the film deserve the label hagiography.

Muggeridge was so credulous that he actually claimed that a miracle had occurred on camera while he was making the film. He claimed that a mysterious "kindly light" had appeared around Mother Teresa. This claim could easily be exploded by the testimony of the cameraman himself: he had some new film stock produced by Kodak for dark or difficult light conditions. The new stock was used for the interview with Mother Teresa. The light in the film looked rather odd, and the cameraman was just about to say so when Muggeridge broke in and said, "It's a miracle, it's divine light."

FI: Are we all victims of the Catholic public relations machine? Or has the West seized upon Mother Teresa as salve for its conscience?

HITCHENS: Well, you are giving me my answer in your question. For a long time the church was not quite sure what to do about her. For example, when there was the Second Vatican Council, in the 1960s, there was an equivalent meeting for the Catholics of the Indian subcontinent in Bombay. Mother Teresa turned up and said she was absolutely against any reconsideration of doctrine. She said we don't need any new thinking or reflection, what we need is more work and more faith. So she has been recognized as a difficult and dogmatic woman by the Catholics in India for a long time.

I think there were others in the church who suspected she was too ambitious, that she wouldn't accept discipline, that she wanted an order of her own. She was always petitioning to be able to go off and start her own show. Traditionally, the church has tended to suspect that kind of excessive zeal. I think it was an entirely secular breakthrough sponsored by Muggeridge, who wasn't then a Catholic.

So it wasn't the result of the propaganda of the Holy Office. But when the Catholic church realized it had a winner on its hands, it was quick to adopt her. She is a very great favorite of the faithful and a very good advertisement to attract non-believers or non-Catholics. And she's very useful for the current pope as a weapon against reformists and challengers within the church.

As to why those who would normally consider themselves rationalists or skeptics have fallen for the Mother Teresa myth, I think there is an element of post-colonial condescension involved, in that most people have a slightly bad conscience about "the wretched of the Earth" and they are glad to feel that there are those who will take action. Then also there is the general problem of credulity, of people being willing - once a reputation has been established - to judge people's actions by that reputation instead of the reputation by that action.

[...]

HITCHENS: I said that I didn't ask for forgiveness and I wasn't aware that she could bestow it in any case. Of all the things in the book, that is the one that has attracted most hostile comment - even from friends and people who agree with me. They ask why I object to that, what's wrong with forgiveness? My explanation is that it would be O.K. if she was going to forgive everyone. When she went to Bhopal after the Union Carbide industrial accident killed thousands, she kept saying "Forgive, forgive, forgive." It's O.K. to forgive Union Carbide for its negligence, but for a woman married to an alcoholic child abuser in Ireland who has ten children and no one to look after her, there is no forgiveness in this life or the next one. But there is forgiveness for Princess Diana.

FI: There is a Roman Catholic doctrine about the redemption of the soul through suffering. This can be seen in Mother Teresa's work: she thinks suffering is good, and she doesn't use pain relievers in her clinics and so forth. Does she take the same attitude towards her own health? Does she live in accordance with what she preaches?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4117039 - 05/01/05 01:38 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

So the $50 million is a very small portion of her wealth?

Yes, she was pretty bad about the bling bling; All that gold jewelry she wore and expensive race cars really hurt her image.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: Jellric]
    #4117050 - 05/01/05 01:43 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)



--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4117074 - 05/01/05 01:51 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

So.. rather than quoting an article or referencing the dictionary :sleep: can you give us your thoughts on this notorious woman?


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: Jellric]
    #4117081 - 05/01/05 01:53 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Good intentions, poor planning/methods, stupid absolution, stupid logic, lack of overall progress.

She could've done much more, however; her beliefs not only created her as a symbol, but also limited her.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4117108 - 05/01/05 02:05 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

She could've done much more

Couldn't we all?


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: Jellric]
    #4117155 - 05/01/05 02:17 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I cherish my special edition Playboy magazine with the MT centerfold...  :heart:


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: Jellric]
    #4117670 - 05/01/05 05:26 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, we all could... I'm saying given her circumstances, and her level of support.... she could've done a hell of a lot more. Not everyone is placed in position to utilize their influence beneficially... she did to an extent.... I'm just saying that she could've, and should've done a hell of a lot more.

Swami:
That anything like Granny in the OTD? :wink:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4118224 - 05/01/05 11:55 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I had heard that Mom T. had supported the Churchs stand on birth control. If true that would make her completely suspect in my book. :thumbdown:

And I don't believe in saints. :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineniCCa
BwaBwaHan
Registered: 07/30/04
Posts: 219
Loc: Earth temporarily
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: Icelander]
    #4118981 - 05/01/05 04:21 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

she was kind...i like Mo T


--------------------
Heaveno...CU CU CU CU CU in the Highway...Peace


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4119075 - 05/01/05 04:42 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I think you are just looking for excuse to say something bad about her because you don't like christianity.
She was not a philosopher, but an examplary follower of her religion, consitant to her beliefs.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4119377 - 05/01/05 06:13 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I don't need an  excuse, and the last thing I'd do is look for one.

I'm presenting this to give a different side of the coin that casts doubt on her divinity, and her rational. Nothing more, nothing less. Let the facts speak for themselves, interpret it how you please.

Merely pointing out how human she was if you will....

I don't like Christianity in its rigid structure, I don't have an issue with other forms of it (although I think they are ridiculous)...  forms of Christianity expressing absolution and intolerance... yeah, :shrug: I take up an issue with it.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (05/01/05 06:16 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4119402 - 05/01/05 06:20 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

But she was not fameous for her intelligence and briliant logic, so it is pointless to question those, because there is no reason why they couldn't be questioned, like in the rest of us.

"Divinity"? Does reason and logic make someone divine? Or intelligence? As a matter of fact what does make one divine?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4119421 - 05/01/05 06:24 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Ask the Church, I've never known the definition. I think to be Divine you have to work for the church and perpetuate their beliefs to a great extent.

She was famous for her "charity" efforts, and her collection drives; although much of everything including donations, were never used...


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineTrippinNinjaBuddha
ShroominSamurai
Registered: 04/11/04
Posts: 279
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4119848 - 05/01/05 07:48 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

nice post :thumbup:


--------------------
Jumped in a river, what did I see?
Black eyed angels swimming with me
Moon full of stars and astral cars, all the figures I used to see
All my lovers were there with me
All my past and all my futures
We went to heaven in a little rowboat
There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleeMotionALLmotion
DivineeMotive....

Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 759
Loc: The Symphony of Lights......
Re: Mother Theresa... a different perspective. [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #4121238 - 05/02/05 12:14 AM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I have a "different" perspective.... My mom's name is Theresa....    :wink:

(She has not been in magazines....)  :rolleyes:

:sun:


--------------------
Uni-VersALL      MasterPeace
eMotive  :sun: Divinity NowThere Infinity :sun:  eMelody


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Hitchens - God is not Great Moonshoe 490 2 03/11/08 11:38 PM
by vigilant_mind
* Hitchens on Astrology & Religion OrgoneConclusion 605 2 05/28/07 06:55 PM
by jonathanseagull
* Tripping = Rapidly changing your perspective druglord 703 2 01/16/08 08:04 PM
by fake estate
* Unification of perspectives
( 1 2 all )
Ravus 1,941 20 10/26/06 01:49 PM
by Jackenobi
* Shifting Perspective Platinum 839 12 06/13/08 09:13 AM
by Icelander
* perspective, relativity, and measurement...
SneezingPenis
682 5 07/12/05 04:33 PM
by futant462
* Good. Bad. Perspective. Jared 1,474 18 05/02/02 07:28 AM
by Joshua
* Perspective Lion 454 1 08/09/07 11:50 AM
by backfromthedead

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
900 topic views. 0 members, 5 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Gaiana.nl
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.08 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 14 queries.