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International Airline Passenger List Confidentiality? Not with US!
    #4041140 -

This just in:

The Royal Dutch Airlines (KLM) had to turn a plane in mid-flight over Canada because the plane held two Saudi passengers who were on a US suspects list. The plane was to fly from Holland over Canada, over the US (without landing) and to land in Mexico.

Sounds eventless, were it not that there is such a thing as international passenger list confidentiality, the US gov't was routinely not notified of the passengerlist, but nontheless knew the identities of the passengers and had gone through the decision-making process while the plane was crossing the ocean

Personally I could understand it if the US liked to know the identities of all airplane passengers that pass over US soil without landing. But fact of the matter is that this is not agreed upon and the US Gov't appearantly clandestinely monitors Royal Dutch Airlines passenger lists.

This is nothing less then the US Gov't illicitly monitoring information kept on foreign soil, yes perhaps even *hacking into the Royal Dutch Airlines computer system* or *having an inside man*.

Tomorrow this violation will formally presented to, and debated by, the Dutch Government.

Now Bush will laugh and say the Dutch make great Camembert but should keep their mediterranean noses out of US affairs, but let's check the pulse of the Shroomery on the appearant fact that matters as sensitive as foreign airline confidentiality is violated by the US.


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The US violated Dutch airline confidentiality. What do you think of it?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from 04/11/05 01:07 PM until the end of time
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Re: International Airline Passenger List Confidentiality? Not with US! [Re: Asante]
    #4041162 -

I'm very big on civil liberties, but the fact is they're on a list of US suspects. It's the CIA's job to be able to track down those who mean us harm. I don't think that means they're keeping a list of every passenger, but they're probably tracking the movement of suspects, as they should be.


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Re: International Airline Passenger List Confidentiality? Not with US! [Re: Silversoul]
    #4041260 -

Quote:
they're probably tracking the movement of suspects, as they should be.


Then they're tracking them on our soil and that could violate a number of things!

Incidentally: The Dutch gov't did not arrest the Saudi's which likely means there are no agreements we don't know of between the governments.
How can they know which planes they board? If they physically track then they can physically arrest or eichmann their asses to the US.

The NSA has Echelon. Echelon is said to penetrate anything. Perhaps they are tracking them with Echelon, tapping into local computer systems via an Echeloooooooooon search. The Dutch Gov't has long ago ordered an investigation and declared Echelon does exist.


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Re: International Airline Passenger List Confidentiality? Not with US! [Re: Asante]
    #4041433 -

Quote:
Incidentally: The Dutch gov't did not arrest the Saudi's which likely means there are no agreements we don't know of between the governments.


Perhaps they did not want to unnecessarily get involved in a case that concerns the national security of the US? I imagine that would be a high priority after the whole Madrid incident.

Quote:
How can they know which planes they board? If they physically track then they can physically arrest or eichmann their asses to the US.


I'm sure they have their ways. They can use informants, intercept messages, track flight #'s, search for known aliases, etc. As for why they weren't arrested or sent to the US, I can't give a definitive answer. Maybe they need them as leverage or something. The CIA has all sorts of things going on in the background that we don't know about, so I'm not going to even pretend.


PS: A source would be nice.


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Re: International Airline Passenger List Confidentiality? Not with US! [Re: Silversoul]
    #4041468 -

Source was the Dutch TV news, it's that fresh! If I see an english link I'll link it.

The current Dutch Government are major kissups to Bush. The mere thought of beig in one headline or photo with Bush is enough to make our prime minister Balkenende flush the goldfish :smirk:


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Re: International Airline Passenger List Confidentiality? Not with US! [Re: Asante]
    #4042486 -

US airspace is US airspace. I believe that there is now a requirement for all airlines to provide a passenger manifest if they want to use our airspace. And if we have reason to believe the manifest is false........

You cannot on one hand bitch about intelligence failures and on the other emasculate the intelligence gathering agencies. That is what's been going on since Nixon.


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Re: International Airline Passenger List Confidentiality? Not with US! [Re: Asante]
    #4046795 -

If they hijacked the planes and flew them into buildings in the USA, then the hippies here would blame Bush (including constantly posting the same hate Bush rant over and over again in this forum).


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Re: International Airline Passenger List Confidentiality? Not with US! [Re: Great_Satan]
    #4046902 -

Still, your nation owes the KLM the $500.000 this little round trip has cost them :wink:

The matter is still under Dutch governmental debate, but the KLM has agreed to comply to the new US policy *sigh* you guys got a list with 70.000 unwanted people on it. 70.000 :shocked:


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Re: International Airline Passenger List Confidentiality? Not with US! [Re: Asante]
    #4047003 -

We owe KLM nothing. US airspace is US airspace and we alone will make the rules governong it. Anybody who doesn't like them can use other airspace. And that is fucking that.

Since when is it illegal to follow someone in the Netherlands?


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