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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh?
    #3938176 - 03/19/05 01:09 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

So these terms "lower" self "higher" self get used a lot in spiritual circles and it dawned on me that they do without them having defined dictionary meanings related to a sense of experiential self. I realized how many of us, including myself for lack of other words to describe states of being, use them and that we all may have different meanings for the terms we picked up along the way.

I also realized reading here that some are unfamiliar with the terms all together. I want to ask if anyone who has their own understanding of them can write a few words to see if we are all on the same page of understanding when they get used and to assist others in understanding what is meant by them when they are used.

I'll start and keep it general and simple.

My lower self feels separate and dis-associated with others because I am either feeling better or worse based on worldly material judgments. My higher self feels connected to everyone through commonalities of just being spirit having a human experience.

My lower self feels dense headed and hearted. My ability to understand mentally and emotionally is as thick as brick. When in a higher self state I can comprehend ideas and relate to feelings very quickly and easily.

My lower self experiences the world with just the 5 physical senses and they may be dulled at that. My higher self experiences the world through the 6th sense as I seem to know, feel and see things that are not apparent with my physical senses.

My lower self can feel trapped mentally and emotionally in situations. My higher self feels free as a bird flying above it all.

My lower self feels like a robot running on auto pilot while half asleep. My higher self is highly cognizant and hyper vigilant and sensitive to every little subtle shifting of my environment.

My lower self is prone to states of negativity like fear and anger, lack of patience and frustration or sadness. My higher self just knows security of eternal being, joy, patience understanding and universal brotherly love.

My lower self can feel lost and not know the way out of or into something. My higher self sees in and out doors and avenues everywhere.

My lower self does have a richer tangible experience where emotions and thoughts run deep and serious. My higher self has subtle experiences where emotions and thoughts run light "difficult for most to get their mental hands on" and carefree.

My lower self can easily get stubborn and with holding where as my higher self is very compromising and giving.

My lower self feels like the human aspect of me riddled with limitations and my higher self feels like the spirit self of me, just free and unbounded and sometimes can have me forgetting I am human trapped in a body all together.

That sums it up for me. If anyone has other ideas for what the terms mean to them when they use them or read them, please do share.

I do realize we are one person ultimately and that this can be seen as a duality separation but I don't see it that way. I just see them as being aspects of the multi dimensional life forms we are as one individual and one whole of individuals.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3938185 - 03/19/05 01:13 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I have two aspects to me. I don't expect people to believe me, but I can feel the constant battle between the two sides. Both of them serve a purpose in my existence.

I say 'lower self' and 'higher self' mostly as a metaphor to describe internal conflict I sometimes experience. It does seem as though I have two...'personalities' inside of me, fighting for dominance. That's just how I've interpreted it.

It's all me, anyway.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: MOTH]
    #3938194 - 03/19/05 01:16 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Psychologists call this bi-polar disorder.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3938222 - 03/19/05 01:25 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Psychologists call this bi-polar disorder.




Been there, done that.  :tongue: :wink:

It's not some disorder.  It's who I am.  It took me years of therapy and over-medicating with pharms to realize that.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3938226 - 03/19/05 01:26 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

To me the Higher Self is the divine presence.. the immortal, multidimensional unconsciousness of soul that is constantly connected to all that is.. the Lower Self I would consider the physical body and mind or something to that effect.


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: MOTH]
    #3938227 - 03/19/05 01:26 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Was a joke :tongue:

Humans are naturally bi-polar, do what makes you feel happy... It's healthy imo to question both sides of an issue.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: Shroomism]
    #3938273 - 03/19/05 01:42 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Our Lower Self is simply our awareness sunken to an animal level. "Monkey mode" I call it. You will know you are in this state when you are focused on lust, greed, and gluttony- you will want to satisfy your senses in a fruitless attempt to fill the void that is the bottomless pit. That way leads to competition, anger, and jealousy.

Once you understand that we are spirits in animal bodies you can focus on your Higher self:

The Higher Self is the eternal companion, the mysterious "other" which manifests in our lives from time to time to provide guidance on the Path. It is sometimes heard as the "still, small voice" that tells us the truth in any given situation. It is the voice of mind out of body, our natural state...when you're functioning from it it feels soooo right and so natural that you wonder how you ever forgot about it!

Life is about our individual struggle to operate from that Higher Self on a permanent basis. Different techniques/religions have arisen, each claiming to return us there, but each being diluted and corrupted to funnel power to men.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3938274 - 03/19/05 01:42 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Was a joke :tongue:





I know.  :smile:  I figured you were being facetious.  I just wanted to explain how I felt about my own personal diagnosis of bipolar. 

Sorry if I came across too strong.  :heart:


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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: Shroomism]
    #3938299 - 03/19/05 01:52 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

staight up.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: Jellric]
    #3938349 - 03/19/05 02:09 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I've heard it go something like.. enlightenment isn't leaving reality.. it's descending the higher self into the physical matter for mastery of reality.


--------------------


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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: Shroomism]
    #3938424 - 03/19/05 02:37 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Mastery of reality? I don't know in what way one can "master" reality, but I can see one knowing and understanding reality.... There is nothing to master reality, and reality has no concept of being mastered. :wink:

"Lower self", to me, sounds more like a lower center of consciousness, where one's "higher self", which, in my eyes, doesn't involve any concept of "self" at all, depending on what degree of higher consciousness one is accessing, is a mind that is not obstructing one's direct experience and center in being, where pure awareness permeates every thought and sensation, where one feels before and during when one thinks.

I don't sense a "lower self" as something that must be kept in balance with a "higher _ ", as they are not opposites, but rather two states of mind on a gradient of how much pure awareness is being experienced, how unobstructive the mind's programming is, one's accumulated understanding, etc. etc. etc. Lower self is simply a short-circuted, misprogrammed mind that is creating interference between reality as it occurs and one's experience of that reality, while "higher _ " is a sane, correctly functioning, transparent mind that allows ones center in being to be perfectly aligned, allowing pure awareness and a direct experience of life into one's life. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: Shroomism]
    #3938439 - 03/19/05 02:42 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I can go for that definition; I've also heard enlightment described as being just like everyday life except "two feet off the ground". I wouldn't know, but like most of us I've enjoyed it from time to time. (BTW, nice to see you back , bro. )  :heart:


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: Jellric]
    #3938505 - 03/19/05 02:58 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Jellric said:
I can go for that definition; I've also heard enlightment described as being just like everyday life except "two feet off the ground". I wouldn't know, but like most of us I've enjoyed it from time to time.




Enlightenment is defined by ourselves, there is no objective defintion of Enlightenment that is accessed, its a purely subjective term that represents an aspect of one's own reality that others cannot know.... It takes a lot of explanation to really begin to communicate one's Enlightenment to others..... etc. etc. etc....

:grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleJellric
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3938644 - 03/19/05 03:55 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, it is a state that resists objective definition. Of course one cannot simply pronounce oneself as reaching enlightenment simply be announcing such. And once you are in that zone you have no desire whatsoever to explain or define your inner state of mind to others.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3939069 - 03/19/05 09:27 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I swear my life has turned into some kinda~ video game that is prolly~ playing me like a toy for some kinda~ child's eeemusement~....  :shake:
Tests tests, so many tests.....  LIFE, it IS really wonderful....  perhaps we were all supposed to live as solita....  Yeah, "Man was not supposed to be an Island"....    I am kikin myself in the ass for writing my whole freakin life on here....!


AHEM, I heard that Jiggy....  :smirk: :heart:

OK, so you mix the "Higher" with a dash of the "Lower", and ya~ got a nicely mixed(and slightly tattered) Medium Cocktail in Perfectly Balanced Conflict....    :scrambled:
Shall we say:  Oil+Water+Emulsion in the middow~...?  I like the ones with the umbrellas, but strictly for decoration....  :wink:

I can see it as a gift, I can see it as a curse, but either way there is always struggle....  Ya~ play out all the possible scenarios(that you can think of without a nicely touched woman's perspective) and all ya~ see is everything biting you in the ass....  So then what....?  Hope for the best one out of a million....?


OK, show of hands, how many brothers and sisters do I have here, and how spread out are we....?  And what are my resources...?  :smirk:

:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3939081 - 03/19/05 09:33 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Come on, git out of the woodwerk~, I asked for a show of hands here, ya'll ain't gonna~ just leave a man sitting here are ya~....?  :smirk:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3939088 - 03/19/05 09:38 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

ALLRIGHTY then, I shook the tree, I guess I will come back later to see what fruits and nuts are left....  :smirk:

(Must think I'm stooooopid or sumthin....)  Ssshhheeesshhh....  :lol:


:heartpump:


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3939181 - 03/19/05 10:40 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Nice to see you back, jiggy. I have missed your energetic presence lately  :heart:

My friends and I talked about these things last night while sharing some blunts. I totally share your viewpoints :smile:

Could one add that those lower-self motives corresponds to being centered in the three lower chakras (root, sexual and navel) which makes up the lower-self (flesh or earthly body). When our energy focus rests in the heart chakra or above, we are operating through our higher selves.

The energy will constantly rise and fall, and through floating awareness, mindfulness, we can keep the channels open and let the battery flow freely both up and down (+/-).


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3939322 - 03/19/05 11:31 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

WOW! Thanks everyone for contributing what these terms mean to you when you use or hear them. This was interesting for me to read.

I experience them as being spread out over a gradient like FW put it and to hear for some, its one or the other and they struggle was interesting. I suppose at their extremes they do appear as polar opposites however, to me, the higher one doesn't struggle with anything. The lower one is always in a struggle with something including the higher self.

Shroomism welcome back! Your enlightenment statement of the higher self got some flack. Because I see them as being on an open ended gradient as you move into the higher self it just means to me more light awareness comes into play but I think that can go on indefinitely without a final state.

I was going to touch on something you said in my first post, and I didn't about working to drop the higher self down into the lower self's position to be there for you 24/7. We pretty much do it naturally anytime when in a lower state, we look for understanding of it.

It likes what jell said about the higher self being a guiding friend. The lower self can be so blind to a lot, clumsy, ignorant, struggling, insensitive and the higher self is that inner voice friend that says "hey will you look at this that you missed or didn't considered, its really not so bad and there is good here too." It would be the self that insight comes from and it has the birds eye view for finding the easiest going path through anything.

I laughed when you said Jell that when in a lower self state, its easy to forget that guide is there and to utilize it. Once you've made its acquaintance and have a good feel for what its all about then its prime time to get in the habit of calling it in to play when you sense it not around.

It always is right there ready to serve yet its funny how the lower states don't want help, they enjoy the drama of being helpless and hopeless or it doesn't want to feel good and at ease because it likes  the drama of feeling bad and disgruntled.

The lower self would be like the ego whose the actor on the stage whom loves the audiences attention and play acting only it thinks the play is real.  The higher self is like the active audience  saying, "look out!" That guys got a gun behind his back and he plans to shoot you." It's also like the director of the play and like how we want to direct the characters in the movies or during sports games on TV because we have seen what they haven't "the hidden plots, what the other players are up to, the obvious solutions. Like in a horror movie you tell that girl, "don't go in there, he's waiting behind the door to slit your throat." But the actress doesn't hear and goes in and gets creamed.

We have that voice and guide working for us but how well do people hear it and heed its advice or take its direction? I guess some people don't even know its there or haven't experienced it well enough to even trust in it yet if they have at least begun sensing with it.

When in the lower self, you do feel a strong sense of self and when in the higher self far up the gradient, it's weird what happens to your sense of self. It blurs and becomes a wash with its environment, like what FW said, it's not a definitive self anymore.

I THINK, its why many people put resistance up to it at first and feel uncomfortable in it and scramble back down. There is no feeling a self identity in it that makes you stand out in a crowed and get noticed because it has no definitions. You can feel invisible to the world and in a way, when more fully in it, you are because there is nothing to be said or to do in it.

That's getting into the oblivion aspects of it that are way out of touch with lower realities and dramas. Its like the reverse of how when you are feeling really low, you forget the higher self even exists and that others are living the high life and that its even possible.

When up in oblivion, you forget the lower self even exists and that lowly states are even possible. You can't recognize struggle or pain or fear as the dramas of life around you disappear and become invisible to you.

Ever see someone get really pissy angry and you just start laughing at them until they look at you all queer like wondering what is so funny. They are mad and think you should get mad with them because there has been an injustice! When you see the bigger picture, it all gets funny and you just can't take anything seriously.

It is a very detached state and can be called by others being out of touch with "reality" but they can't see the reality you do, they just see the material one.

As much as being in oblivion heights is awesome, its not practical for life here and can upset the people around you who wonder why you don't seem to care about the things they do. I think that's why people want to say that a balance between the two is important and to find a happy workable medium.

Thanks for all the inspiration for me to look at this more fully again today. Something vital came out of it for me that I needed to make note of.  It had to do with re-realizing that if you seem to be in a struggle between the higher and lower self, you are in a lower self state.

The lower is the insecure state that wants to hold onto things. The higher is the secure one that lets go easily. I fly all over the gradient and it never fails to blow me away to realize how much you forget stuff when you drop. The thing that sucks is, you don't even know that you forgot stuff until something re-minds you. :sun: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Higher Self Lower Self.....Huh? [Re: dorkus]
    #3939346 - 03/19/05 11:39 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

We double posted Dr Mandel brot and you snuck yours in as I was writing the last reply. Nice to see you too! :wink:Um, YES! I totally agree with what you said and I liked the later part about flowing through them.

I know people who just want to stay in the upper chakras and I can't seem to find the words for telling them that a balance between the two is important for human functioning. I guess it gets back to when stuck in the high highs, the lower states are inaccessible and when stuck in the low lower states the higher ones are inaccessible.

So it's key to have free moving flow like you said and to watch for getting stuck. :thumbup:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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