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OfflineDrHerb
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Azures mushrooms?
    #3900211 - 03/10/05 11:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'm new at mushroom hunting, and i decided to go to a wooded area i usually hike the other day. well as i was walking i spotted some small mushrooms in some brush. i examined them carefully and and came back home i researched a little and they look like young Azures mushrooms. before i go back up there to pick them i wanted expert advice. what do Azures mushrooms look like, the ones i found had long skinny necks and they had caps about 1/2in in diameter, the caps kind of draped over the neck and around the edge there is a dark brown pigment. What do young Azures mushrooms look like? are they found in California?
........thanks for any information..........


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Invisiblepurpledropper
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: DrHerb]
    #3900229 - 03/10/05 11:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

No azures this time of year. Do some more research and youll be ready for next fall.


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OfflineDrHerb
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: DrHerb]
    #3900242 - 03/10/05 11:38 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

.....one more thing are Azures even magic, a friend told me they were and hes supposedly an "expert" so he claims, but i don't really trust his judgment. He once told me it was perfectly safe to consume jimson weed but i learned the hard way he was wrong.


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OfflineDrHerb
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: DrHerb]
    #3900257 - 03/10/05 11:41 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

well if they were not Azures then what would you suppose they were?
.....we've also been having irregular weather conditions these past few days.


Edited by DrHerb (03/10/05 11:44 PM)


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Invisiblepurpledropper
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: DrHerb]
    #3900289 - 03/10/05 11:49 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

read more!!!!they are not psilocybe azurescens


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: purpledropper]
    #3900367 - 03/11/05 12:09 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Psilocybe azurescens are a fall mushroom common around Hammond and Astoria, Washington in rank grasses and sand dune areas along the northern Oregon Coast.

mj


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OfflineGumbyM
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: DrHerb]
    #3901141 - 03/11/05 04:35 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

1. You're too far south to find azures
2. They stopped growing about 2 or 3 months ago
3. The don't grow in the woods.
4. It was probably some species of Psathyrella.

Oh yeah, they are active; most potent mushroom known, at that.


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Offlineefrog
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: Gumby]
    #3934572 - 03/18/05 09:55 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hey, I am not DISAGREEING or anything, but aren't these photos of Azurescens in the Woods?
http://www.pilzepilze.de/piga/zeige.htm?name=psilocybe_azurescens


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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: efrog]
    #3934969 - 03/18/05 11:58 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Those are probably photos of outdoor cultivation.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: shroomydan]
    #3935405 - 03/18/05 01:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Those were grown frm cultures from me and jo0chen Gartz from 1991 In Oregon. The garden is Dr. muller's back yard. The shrooms grew two years and never spread anywhere else. same old, same old.
'mj

And P cyanesce3ns are3 the most potent shrooms not P. azurescens. many of us have alo determined that Pauls potency chart is way off.

have a shroomy day


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3936827 - 03/18/05 07:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

John, I compiled the data from various analysises and it shows that P. azuresces is more potent on average than P. cyanescens.

Psilocybe cyanescens average potency (% dry weight)

Sample Psilocybin Psilocin Baeocystin Total
1 0,72 0,93 0,03
2 0,52 0,23 0,03
3 0,41 0,32 0,02
4 0,83 0,41 0,04
5 0,98 0,28 0,01
6 0,88 0,65 0,02
7 0,68 0,75 0,04
8 0,78 0,62 0,02
9 0,55 0,71 0,05
10 0,41 0,62 0,04
11 0,78 0,58 0,03
12 0,59 0,72 0,02
13 0,69 0,68 0,01
14 0,78 0,71 0,02
15 0,48 0,91 0,02

0,67 0,61 0,03 1,31





1 0,68 0,72 0,03
2 0,51 0,63 0,02
3 0,81 0,41 0,02
4 0,71 0,92 0,03

0,68 0,67 0,03 1,37





1 0,61 0,05 0,01
2 0,48 0,03 0,02
3 0,51 0,02 0,01
4 0,71 0,03 0,02
5 0,43 0,02 0,03
6 0,38 0,05 0,01
7 0,45 0,03 0,02
8 0,33 0,04 0,03
9 0,62 0,05 0,01
10 0,52 0,04 0,02
11 0,51 0,02 0,02
12 0,44 0,05 0,03
13 0,43 0,02 0,01
14 0,38 0,03 0,01
15 0,45 0,04 0,03

0,68 0,26 0,03 0,96






0,49 0,17


0,15 0,96


0,82 0,13

1,15 0,76

0,83 0,2

1,68 0,28

1,43 0,28

1,55 0,24

1,36 0,23

1,1 0,2

1,01 0,14

0,87 0,18

0,97 0,28

0,84 0,06





1,02 0,29
1,31





Averages
0,76 0,46 0,03 1,24

Sources:
OBSERVATIONS ON THE PSILOCYBE CYANESCENS COMPLEX OF EUROPE AND NORTH AMERICA
Psilocybin & Psilocin levels in in 20 species from 7 genera of Wild Mushrooms in the Pacific Northwest, USA

Psilocybe azurescens average potency

Mass[mg]
Psilocybin[%]
Psilocin[%]
Baeocystin[%]
Total
50 1,71 0,34 0,41
101 1,68 0,28 0,38
167 1,56 0,3 0,32
213 1,51 0,31 0,28
270 1,4 0,28 0,19
317 1,29 0,26 0,27
450 1,2 0,25 0,31





62 1,78 0,38 0,35
123 1,75 0,39 0,36
170 1,58 0,34 0,37
224 1,43 0,28 0,31
331 1,18 0,19 0,25
472 1,2 0,2 0,21





156 1,62 0,42 0,38
165 1,72 0,38 0,39
213 1,56 0,32 0,28
233 1,62 0,25 0,24
312 1,43 0,26 0,31
341 1,32 0,25 0,35
412 1,17 0,31 0,28
403 1,21 0,38 0,19
450 1,19 0,36 0,24
465 1,24 0,24 0,3
Averages
1,35 0,29 0,28 1,92





Data source:


Paul Stamets and Jochen Gartz: A new caerulescent Psilocybe from the Pacific Coast of Northwestern America
http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/24244

I am still searching on data for Panaeolus cyanescens. Do you have any papers on this, John?


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: Anno]
    #3938182 - 03/19/05 01:10 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hi ANno, I ahve already posted a paper on the analysis of panaeolus cyanescens form various origins byu Tjakko Stijve here in theis forum somewhere in my posts.

Agai I disagree with the Stamets gartz analysis of the azuresecens as the most potent.

The smaller shrooms fo th azures are not as potent as the smaller baby Psilocybe cyanescens. And Paul''s analysis w2as only ofor a specific mushroom he analysed.

It is like the single specimen of Copelandia cambodgeniensis analysed by Stijve. I never found abnother one as potent as the one shroom used in analysis by Stijve.

That single specimens which yield a dry gram weight has never been duplicated in other collections except the listing by Gartz a who adds butrients to his cultivation projects and other tryyotamines into the mushrooms. And as you knowm the Aures grow a few years, do not spread into other areas foreign very well and even look a little different when grown out doors in Germany than they do in America or other European areas.

mj

In the mean time here is the Copelandia paper by Stijve.
one more time.













I have dozens of such papers on may species. Howeverm, my bibliography has reference listings of the chemical analysis fo many species.

mj


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Offlineefrog
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3938708 - 03/19/05 04:12 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hey, thanks! When I saw the photos, I HAD to ask :laugh: Living in Germany and all :wink: Hence the "not disagreeing" part :wink:


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3938826 - 03/19/05 04:42 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

>And Paul''s analysis w2as only ofor a specific mushroom he analysed.

John, I am not talking about that one mushroom.
Look at the table above. It contains the data of many samples, and at the bottom there is a weighted average.
Same for P. cyanescens, only that the data lack an individual sample mass, thus the average is a simple average.

So, on AVERAGE, with many analyzed specimens taken into account, tha data says P. azurescens is more potent.

Do you have more analysis data than those I used for P. azurescens and P. cyanescens ?

And for Panaeolus cyanescens according to your document, they are on AVERAGE less potent than both P. azuresens and P. cyanescens.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: Anno]
    #3939047 - 03/19/05 09:07 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Anno, again a big problem with doses is the amount of mushrooms to eat. AS i have pointed out over and over over the years,

A fresh one ounce bag of Psilocybe cyanescens holding four to five mushrooms will get four to five or six people high. The same for azurescens. Four or five large fresh specimens weighing in at one ouce only get four to five people high.

On the other hand, a fresh one ounce bag of Psilocybe cyanescens with twenty or thirty smaller specimens in it will get from ten to as many as 15 or more people high. AS for those statistics those are personal observations which have been the same for more than thirty years. And not all of Gartz, chemical analysis have proven to be fact.

He has analysed mushrooms and published some papers on species he claimed were psilocybian with chemical analysis oif those species and then others conducted the same analsis on thye ery same species and found no chemical content.

Even Stijve claimed he found a little less than one percent psilocybine in Panaeolus antillarum.

And as I mention he has a habit of adding trytamines to his cultures to increase there potency. I do not believ that that potency carries into next generation's cultivated mushrooms.

AS for bags of small anurescens collections, there potency is stil four to five hits in a fresh ounce whether it is four or five fresh shrooms or twenty to thirty fresh shrooms.

A similar problem is Psilocybe baeocystis. These mushrooms are very potent when fresh and are smaller and less weight than a single dosage of P. cyanescens or P. azurescens. One to two medioum baeocystis will fri y you the same as one large cyanescens or one large azurescens yet they weight would not be as heavy as the latter two species. But when dried the baeocystis lose more than 1/2 to 2/3rds their potency in drying.

Azures within four months of storage also lose a lot of potency. And liberty caps apparently hold their potency for more than a hundred years. One collection from 1861 from England was found when analysed to have as much psilocine/psilocybine as fresh specimens picked in Oregon in the late 1970s.

And then again, each individual shroom has a different chemical content than the same mushroom from across the street.


And cubes can varie from one to ten in potency in a range of from three to five grams dried or one ounce or more fresh. In Texas they say, WE only have to eat one shroom. Of course that is a giant friggin shroom weighing at leat an ounce for a good fry.

I collected Azures for years in Oregon when i lived there and in Seattle I have probably collected more cyanescens in my life than any individual int he world has. paul Stamets would even verify that.

Anyway, It is still my l personal belief that Psilocybe cyanescens are the most potent mushroom inthe world.

And again, 7 Copelandia cyanescens mushrooms which are an average high, are still more potent than one single specimen of Psilocybe cyanecens or Psilocybe azurescens and the weight of 7 fresh Copelandias is still less weight than that of a simialr large single specimen dose of either Psilocybe cyanescens or Psilocybe azurescens. MEaning a single dose of Copelandia cyanescens can be nmore portent than a likewise weight of the Psilocybe cyanescens or Psilocybe azurescens

. So what does that do to account for Stijve's analysis of the potency of the copes. I did fine it interesting that the hawaiian Cope were high in Psilocybine and virtually devoid of psilocine while the oposite was true for australia were the copes were high in psilocine and low in psilocybine. He compared the one dried gram of Copelandia to the same or more potent than a one dried gram of liberty cap.

The libs take one dried gram which can be from 20 fresh mushrooms or more. While two ot six people have gotten high from a single gram of pinners of Psilocybe cyanescens. And one dried ounce of P. cyanescens has yields from 40 to 60 or more doses while a dried ounce of Psilocybe azurescens yields about 30-35 similar doses.

And those are facts.

mjshroomer

mj


Edited by mjshroomer (03/19/05 09:27 AM)


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Offlineduster
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3941228 - 03/19/05 08:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

fight fight


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: duster]
    #3950597 - 03/21/05 08:59 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)



I noticed that baeocystin was included in the charts, but is it included in the averages? I ask this because the P. azurescens have a significantly greater baeocystin content than the analyzed P. cyanescens, and as far as i know, baeocystin is still an iffy subject when it comes to psychoactivity.

You make a good point though mj: you cant just look at psil. content when comparing potentcy (although it almost always is the only factor). proportional psil. content/mass shold be used when juxtaposing 2 species.


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Re: Azures mushrooms? [Re: purpledropper]
    #3950676 - 03/21/05 09:21 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

purpledropper said:
read more!!!!they are not psilocybe azurescens



Azures have been found growing wild in california, as for this time of year it would be rare. It has been warm and dry for a month and there is a VERY slight chance the cool weather would trigger a fruiting. Most likely not azures, but cyans and azures would not be out fo the question. Workman gets azures in the spring when he has a warm spell and a cold snap


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I need to proofread


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