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OfflineZekebomb
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Registered: 08/24/03
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what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'?
    #3713819 - 02/01/05 04:07 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I live in a small town in BC, Canada. there's about eight or nine black people who live here (not that that necessarily means much). (and there is a healthy portion of wiggers.) so my question is, by the time hip-hop reaches me, can it be called 'underground'? I live so far away from where it's generally produced. for it to travel overland to my ears, doesn't it have to be well-known enough to not qualify as 'underground' anymore?

so what's the definition of 'underground'?


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InvisiblePhoshaman
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3714032 - 02/01/05 05:28 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Nothing, really. That's half the problem with the "underground" heads nowadays; they think they are uber-cool because all of the shit they listen to isn't on MTV. Well, unfortunately for them about 95% of the artists they listen to would JUMP at the chance to get MTV/Mainstream airplay.

There's no such thing as underground, it's all hip-hop. Everybody wants to get paid. Don't let the elitist backpackers fool ya.


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: Phoshaman]
    #3714198 - 02/01/05 06:14 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

there used to be such a thing as 'underground'...
but then MTV tried to market it and the concept died that day...


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OfflinePathos
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3715288 - 02/01/05 09:08 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

does it matter? Dont judge music based on its popularity, or lack of. Judge it on its quality


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Offlinebrowndustin
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Registered: 10/03/03
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: Pathos]
    #3715464 - 02/01/05 09:38 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I think it's a pretty valid question. I'm from bc and I've sort of wondered as well. We don't seem to have a very big hip hop scene atleast where I live, but I gather that basically anything that isn't too mainstream could be considered hip hop.

I'm not an audiophile or anything, but I'm really liking hip hop. A fucking lot I should say! Listen to some Sage Francis. The guy's a bit overkill about the whole situation, but he's got some fucking rad beats and seems like a generally cool guy all around.


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Invisiblefunkymonk
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3715539 - 02/01/05 09:56 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

If you want to get technical about it, one could argue that 'underground' hiphop is stuff that's released on indie records label's.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: funkymonk]
    #3718389 - 02/02/05 11:44 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

okay, but to spin that back at you, what qualifies as an indie label?


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Invisiblefunkymonk
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3718645 - 02/02/05 01:01 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

grassroot's. something that is started by the indivdual's involved in making the music. Not sub-labels to larger labels.
They make they burn there own cd's, they package it and distribute it themselves. to me that would be an indie label.


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OfflinePathos
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: funkymonk]
    #3718675 - 02/02/05 01:08 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

but a lot of mainstream "rappers" also have their own record labels. Eminem, Dr Dre, P diddy, master P


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: funkymonk]
    #3718816 - 02/02/05 01:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

yeah, agree that indie labels are smaller than non-indie labels, and their proprietors are ostensibly 'in it for the music' and not for profit... but you must admit you are drawing a line here, which may be totally arbitrary.

I don't judge the music before I listen to it by determining whether it's 'underground' or not... I just wonder if the term has any actual meaning or value.


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OfflinePathos
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3718863 - 02/02/05 01:53 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Zekebomb said:
but you must admit you are drawing a line here, which may be totally arbitrary.



Exactly. The lines are always blurry. One usually doesn't know the creator's intentions, so trying to classify something as underground or not is as subjective as any other type of opinion about music.

I simply take it as it is


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Invisiblefunkymonk
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3720416 - 02/02/05 08:13 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I try not to label anything but rednecks.


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Offlineguest23
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: Pathos]
    #3720439 - 02/02/05 08:18 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

You're talking about label imprints. These are just names, they are all under the 5 major labels.


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Offlinedelta9
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: Pathos]
    #3720481 - 02/02/05 08:26 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Pathos said:
but a lot of mainstream "rappers" also have their own record labels. Eminem, Dr Dre, P diddy, master P


Rap != Hip Hop

There is some convergence, but rap is by no means hip hop... hip hop can be rap, though, as it is the greater art form. Kind of squares-and-rectangles relationship. I look at it as rap is a subset of hip hop. However you look at it, hip hop is so much more than rap.


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Offlineguest23
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: delta9]
    #3720578 - 02/02/05 08:43 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I agree. The hiphop "purists" would give you a lecture on the 4 "elements" (BBoy/Breaking, MCing, Graffitti, and DJing), but I don't think a scientific definition is necessary.


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Invisibletrick

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 1,059
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: guest23]
    #3720802 - 02/02/05 09:24 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Hiphop is something you live. Rap is something you do - Krs One

said. all these fake people on tv are rappers
these underground cats are MCs.


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OfflineJon
Registered: 06/28/03
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: trick]
    #3720873 - 02/02/05 09:33 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Underground rap was always defined to me as local rap. I live close to Washington Heights in NYC, so alot of people here listen to Immortal Technique if they even listen to underground. Immortal Technique kicks ass by the way. http://bongload.org/album/SonofaMAN/immortal_technique__dance_with_the_devil.mp3 :wink:


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OfflinePsillyNilly
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: guest23]
    #3720886 - 02/02/05 09:35 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Most pop rap artists were once underground...The people who say they like "underground" music just means they dont like the stuff that's playin on the radio/mainstream. Im not a big Hip Hop fan---im an electronic head, but I do enjoy Hip HOp as well as all the other generes of music. What I dont like is when a rapper (lets take Eminem for example since he's such a hot topic) once he goes mainstream, starts moving closer to the center of POP culture. FOr example that song "lose it" he released as his single on ENcore IMO fucking sucks. THe only good song on that album is mockingbird mostly because of the beat. The reason they do this is because 75% of the people buying this stuff is under the age of 16, therefore he releases songs LIke "lose it" as a single.
And I think rap is hip hop----But not all Hip Hop is rap. (I could be wrong Delta, this isnt really my forte')....I like the style of lyricism that HIp Hop offers, I just cant relate to the shit they sing about and Usually, the 4 measured looped A-B-A-B beat lacks melody/harmony. Anyways, Im just trying to express the point that most Hip Hop artists that have broken through that barrier of stardom, tend to step away from the unique style that made them popular and towards the money driven POP industy so they can cater to the crowds.


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OfflinePathos
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: Jon]
    #3720920 - 02/02/05 09:39 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Jon said:
Underground rap was always defined to me as local rap. I live close to Washington Heights in NYC, so alot of people here listen to Immortal Technique if they even listen to underground. Immortal Technique kicks ass by the way. http://bongload.org/album/SonofaMAN/immortal_technique__dance_with_the_devil.mp3 :wink:



That was a great song, thanks for posting it


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OfflinePsillyNilly
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Re: what qualifies hip-hop as 'underground'? [Re: Pathos]
    #3720947 - 02/02/05 09:42 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Good stroytellng in that song and I like the beat.....which isnt his, just a sampled Classical Loop. Half the credit goes to Mozart or whoever that is


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