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InvisibleRavus
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Slavery and Government Intervention versus Voters and the People
    #3683443 - 01/26/05 04:08 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

When slavery was common in the States, do you believe that if the voters at the time voted to keep slavery, it should've been left alone? Should government intervention and force have been used, like it was in the Civil War? (I realize slavery wasn't the main reason the North fought the South, but focusing on the slavery aspect of the Civil War.) What would the libertarians do if they were alive in that time, as they preach having as little government intervention as possible?

If you saw slaves as property like oxen and mules and not people, then indeed most would support letting the voters of the individual states decide on the issue, but if you did see slaves as people kept down and forced to work, what would you support? If the voters at the time voted by a significant margin to keep slavery, would you go against their wishes?

It is a complex issue, because many people thought as slaves like they thought of work animals or property, and therefore the slaves weren't represented and didn't get to vote, so you would have to go with the system at the time. Yet the system at the time wouldn't be changed because those voting in the South didn't want the slaves to have rights and be considered equals and voters. It's a catch 22 for the rights of the people, including the slaves.


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InvisiblePaou
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Re: Slavery and Government Intervention versus Voters and the People [Re: Ravus]
    #3683476 - 01/26/05 04:14 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Classic liberalism, otherwise known as libertarianism, teaches that the government's role is to secure people's rights, and that these rights include life, liberty, and property. So under this model, government intervention would be not only acceptable, but essential in order to secure the rights of the slaves. State's rights and the will of the majority do not supercede individual rights. Nowadays, I find it's the liberals(particularly the Green Party) who think that democracy is the be-all-and-end-all. While I try not to affiliate myself with any particular ideology, I tend to lean more in the libertarian direction for this very reason.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Slavery and Government Intervention versus Voters and the People [Re: Paou]
    #3684192 - 01/26/05 06:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Paou said:
Classic liberalism, otherwise known as libertarianism




Now that's the first time I've ever heard that little bit of nonsense.


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InvisiblePaou
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Re: Slavery and Government Intervention versus Voters and the People [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3684212 - 01/26/05 07:01 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Paou said:
Classic liberalism, otherwise known as libertarianism




Now that's the first time I've ever heard that little bit of nonsense.



I hope you're being sarcastic. Ever heard of John Locke? Adam Smith? These guys were known in their day as liberals, and their ideology was called liberalism. Sometime in the mid-20th century, the word was adopted by New Deal-era progressives, and so to avoid confusion, the classic liberals(at least in America) began calling themselves libertarians to avoid any confusion.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Slavery and Government Intervention versus Voters and the People [Re: Paou]
    #3684273 - 01/26/05 07:12 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not being sarcastic at all. I was not aware that Locke and Smith were considered liberals. Apparently, the meaning of that word has changed a great deal.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Slavery and Government Intervention versus Voters and the People [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3684458 - 01/26/05 07:40 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not being sarcastic at all. I was not aware that Locke and Smith were considered liberals. Apparently, the meaning of that word has changed a great deal.

Not really, social liberties promoted by libertarians are still what social liberalism is about.

Economic liberalism still means a free market.

It's just been warped into a media spin word, but has different meanings in other parts of the world.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Slavery and Government Intervention versus Voters and the People [Re: Phluck]
    #3684604 - 01/26/05 07:58 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

It means what the majority of people believe it to mean and use it for. It's all about usage and these days liberal is far, far away from libertarian.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Slavery and Government Intervention versus Voters and the People [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3684889 - 01/26/05 08:55 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Hence Paou's careful distinction -- "Classic Liberalism".


pinky


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