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InvisibleSwami
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Fear
    #3601549 - 01/09/05 02:53 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

One of my more powerful teachers used to say that fear is merely a negative prayer for the feared thing to happen. I have yet to master this simple, yet sublime teaching.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleAbstractHarmonix
Love is like a train...
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Re: Fear [Re: Swami]
    #3601579 - 01/09/05 03:02 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, its simplicity almost makes it hard to fully comprehend.

Basically, I live life very postively, and purposely exempt most fears from my mentality.

I do this because "no matter how you worry of the things of today, the same thing will happen tomorrow." Key word here, worry. no matter ewhat emotions hold on a particular situation, or how your ego reacts to confrontation...the result will end up same.

This is emotioanlly, egotistically, and not pysically being involved.


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A plethora of music aspirations control my temptations of future revelations beyond "now". The percussion, and the heart beat of my love and devotion. The rhythm goes beyond, prying into the third eye, releasing the creativity held so far inside. The melodicies, through the out of tune pianos and broken classical guitars...there lies a beauty. A beauty as prevelent as the fire inside. To release these energies is pure ecstacy, to deveop these gifts is sacred. The vocality, so pure as can be, shying away from herself, lies within me. For the underlying serenitity, this is what I live for. I plea for harmony, and nothing more. Music equals love. Creation of love leads to the procreativity of the World, and it's spirals and puddles prevailing.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Fear [Re: Swami]
    #3601721 - 01/09/05 03:36 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

hah wow thats amazing. something that me and you absolutely agree on. Ive come to believe the exact same thing. Meanwhile love is a positive prayer for a thing to happen.


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Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Fear [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3602653 - 01/09/05 10:47 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I have acted it out as a final goodbye ;P

it really did work well :P
now, fear is merely a prayer for the feared thing to happen. :P

and who would want that now huh?


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Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Fear [Re: Swami]
    #3602787 - 01/09/05 11:31 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
One of my more powerful teachers used to say that fear is merely a negative prayer for the feared thing to happen. I have yet to master this simple, yet sublime teaching.




Hmm...
Is mastery of this teaching possible?
I think alot of fears are hardwired.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Registered: 12/23/04
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Re: Fear [Re: Swami]
    #3602795 - 01/09/05 11:34 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Conquer the fear of Death and all other fears will die!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Fear [Re: Sinbad]
    #3602879 - 01/09/05 11:52 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

accept the fear of death and be conquered, all the other fears will be mere ideas without turning into negative prayers.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Fear [Re: Sclorch]
    #3602896 - 01/09/05 11:57 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Alot of our instincts are hardwired... But are they part of our absolute, true nature? They may be there, but can they be transcended?

Hmmm....


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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Fear [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3602953 - 01/09/05 12:17 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

ideas is prayers, as i could see it in given context :wink:


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Offlinedjd586
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Re: Fear [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3602966 - 01/09/05 12:20 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

SkorpivoMusterion is very right, fear is inately hard wired. It's not a prayer, it's a neurological response that's telling your body to get the hell out of there or stick around and fight, aka, "Flight or Fight". Because if you don't do either, you might end up dead or injured.

Think of fear more as an anticipation through human evolution and not a negative prayer for the feared thing to happen.


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Phase 1... collect underpants... phase 2...??? ... Phase 3 - PROFIT!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Fear [Re: djd586]
    #3603134 - 01/09/05 01:16 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

zacly
it can arise - be recognized as what it is - and let go before becoming the gut wrenching horror complex that consumes your life.
to attempt to conquer it is to feed it.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Fear [Re: djd586]
    #3603551 - 01/09/05 03:11 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"SkorpivoMusterion is very right, fear is inately hard wired. It's not a prayer, it's a neurological response that's telling your body to get the hell out of there or stick around and fight, aka, "Flight or Fight". Because if you don't do either, you might end up dead or injured"

some fear certainly is. But we should all realize that MUCH and id not hesitate to say most of our fear encounterd during the day is unnescessary and often baseless. we often spend so much time fearing something, and then when we encounter it we realize that fear was in vain. Somehow our mind gets confused and gives us the same fear response to things like being verbally insulted, or public speaking, or getting on an airplane, as it does when we are faced with a man with a gun.

The differance is that many of those first examples are not in fact dangerous. so we end up living in a lot of unescessary fear. If we examine and face those fears they often disapear and we wonder what we were worried about all along.


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Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Fear [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3603639 - 01/09/05 03:33 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

obsessive fear is not hard wired
this is the area where some
relief can come.


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OfflineTrippinNinjaBuddha
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Re: Fear [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3603752 - 01/09/05 03:59 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Much fear and anxiety, here in the US at least, is perpetuated and stirred up by the media. Constantly we are informed of every negative thing that happens around us in our local communities. The media is uninterested in positive actions or events in the community, and only concerned with 'THIS BAD THING IS HAPPENING! Board up your fucking doors and don't come outside because look how scary the world is!' I don't watch the news. These kinds of fears, the kind of anxiety or agoraphobia caused by the media is definitely not something that is hardwired into our beings. This can be transcended.

Good topic!


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Jumped in a river, what did I see?
Black eyed angels swimming with me
Moon full of stars and astral cars, all the figures I used to see
All my lovers were there with me
All my past and all my futures
We went to heaven in a little rowboat
There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Fear [Re: Sinbad]
    #3603842 - 01/09/05 04:24 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

I like your meditating Yogi in the Siddha posture. It is how I have long wished to discorporate at death.

In 1984 a physician told me to keep an eye on a suspicious mole on my back. I didn't heed his warning, in fact, it should have been removed then. In 1996 it bled spontaneously. Malignant Melanoma, level 3. Level 4 is when it metastasizes, like a toxin seeping into the ground and hitting the water table. They biopsied it, then went back and made a 'wide excision' to remove any migrated cells. It took 3 weeks to wait for the lab results - most nervous 3 weeks of my life. Smith-Kline laboratories finally reported "margins are clear." I gave thanks to GOD by day, and that night I took myself to The Trap, a strip club where I knew some of the girls, but had never watched them dance. You know, a revelry of the flesh - acknowledging my pagan side as well. I knew there was no treatment for melanoma, no chemo or radiation, so I had arranged to die in rural New Hampshire at the offer of a childhood friend who was then unmarried and willing to take care of me. I would spend down my money and die.

On January 20th I'll be having surgery to remove a nodule in my left arm pit. The surgeon said he's 98% sure it's benign (no other nodules, good general health). But...there is 'The Fear.' I have identified this irrational demon that sneaks into my mind. It is not death, not the last expiration not followed by an inspiration that scares me. I am actually curious about THAT moment. No, it is the rapid deterioration that a lengthy old age brings ever so gradually, compressed into a relatively short time. It is cellular degeneration accelerated, the stink of the cancer ward is the living decay of drawn-out death. I want to die here in my meditation room looking out the window into the blue sky above the palm trees. I want to medicate myself if need be, and use psychedelics to help me become the Dispassionate Witness. I'm afraid of putting this upon my Lady, and being a source of self-disgust and disgust for her, although I know that she has the detachment to help me die if it was required. Disgust, aversion, fear - all attachments that must be sundered by the Wisdom of Dispassion - the Wrathful aspect of Compassion like the sword-wielding bronze of Mahakala who sits on a low table behind me. It is not death, the passing-over, that strikes me with dread. Of that, I feel calmly confident. It is the potential suffering, physical and emotional, that I pray I would be given the 'peace which passes all understanding' to endure.

But pardon me, I'm sounding melodramatic. Hopefully a cyst, a fatty benign tumor, an infected lymph node that hasn't responded to antibiotics. At this moment, The Fear has gone, but it'll be back, and I won't be able to really chill until after the next lab report.

Peace.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (01/09/05 04:43 PM)


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Fear [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3603906 - 01/09/05 04:38 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

hey markos... i love you man and i both hope and expect your health will be fine!

and btw, what fucker rated you less than 5?! (dont answer that!)

:heart:


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Everything I post is fiction. This poster is no longer active.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Fear [Re: Moonshoe]
    #3603935 - 01/09/05 04:44 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks Moonshoe, you kind stranger you :wink:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Fear [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3604118 - 01/09/05 05:30 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

fear is the mind killer, fear is the little death that brings total annihilation :o yaydune

yeah.. so once your 'fight-or-flight' thing gets tripped and you're freaking out, if you can't get a handle on that you most likely WILL fight or flee. get a handle on that, and use some of those higher-level brain functinos we're so proud of, and you may very well find another way out.


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i finally got around to making a sig
revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Fear [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3604163 - 01/09/05 05:41 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

SkorpivoMusterion is very right, fear is inately hard wired. It's not a prayer, it's a neurological response that's telling your body to get the hell out of there or stick around and fight, aka, "Flight or Fight". Because if you don't do either, you might end up dead or injured.


Well, hold on. I was pointing towards to the transcendence of fear.

I'll share what Jiddu Krishnamurti has said, as it parallels my stance on fear. Please read it.

We are talking about fear, which is part of this total movement of the ?me?: the me that breaks up life as a movement, the me that separates life itself as the you and the me. We asked, ?What is fear?? We are going to learn non-accumulatively about fear; the very word fear prevents coming into contact with that feeling of danger that we call fear. Look, maturity implies a total, natural development of a human being; natural in the sense of non-contradictory, harmonious, which has nothing to do with age. And the factor of fear prevents this natural, total development of the mind.

When one is afraid, not only of physical things, but also of psychological factors, what takes place in that fear? I am afraid, not only of physically falling ill, of dying, of darkness ? you know the innumerable fears one has, both biological as well as psychological. What does that fear do to the mind, the mind that has created these fears? Do you understand my question? Don?t answer me immediately, look at yourselves. What is the effect of fear on the mind, on one?s whole life? Or are we so used to fear, have we so accustomed ourselves to fear, which has become a habit, that we are unaware of its effect? If I have accustomed myself to the national feeling of the Hindu ? to the dogma, to the beliefs ? I am enclosed in this conditioning and totally unaware of what the effects of it are. I only see the feeling that is aroused in me, the nationalism, and I am satisfied with that. I identify myself with the country, with the belief and all the rest of it. But we don?t see the effect of such a conditioning all around. In the same way, we don?t see what fear does ? psychosomatically, as well as psychologically. What does it do?

Questioner: I become involved in trying to stop this thing from happening.

Krishnamurti: It stops or immobilizes action. Is one aware of that? Are you? Don?t generalize. We are discussing in order to see what is actually happening within us; otherwise this has no meaning. In talking over what fear does and becoming conscious of it, it might be possible to go beyond it. So if I am at all serious I must see the effects of fear. Do I know them as something that has happened in the past, which remains a memory that says: ?These are effects of it?? So that memory sees the effects of it, but the mind doesn?t see the actual effect. I don?t know if you see this? I have said something that is really quite important.

Q: Could you say it again?

K: When I say I know the effects of fear, what does that mean? Either I know it verbally, that is, intellectually, or I know it as a memory, as something that has happened in the past, and I say: ?This did happen.? So the past tells me what the effects are. But I don?t see the effects of it at the actual moment. Therefore, it is something remembered and not real, whereas ?knowing? implies non-accumulative seeing ? not recognition ? but seeing the fact. Have I conveyed this?

When I say ?I am hungry?, is it the remembrance of having been hungry yesterday that tells me, or is it the actual fact of hunger now? The actual awareness that I am hungry now is entirely different from the response of a memory that tells me I have been hungry and therefore I may be hungry now. Is the past telling you the effects of fear, or are you aware of the actual happening of the effects of fear? The actions of the two are entirely different, aren?t they? The one, being completely aware of the effects of fear now, acts instantly. But if memory tells me these are the effects, then the action is different. Have I made myself clear? Now, which is it?

Q: Can you distinguish between a particular fear and actually being aware of the effects of fear as such ? apart from remembering the effects of a fear?

K: That?s what I was trying to explain. The action of the two are entirely different. Do you see that? Do you see that? Please, if you don?t see it don?t say ?yes?, don?t let?s play games with each other. It is very important to understand this. Is the past telling you the effects of fear, or is there a direct perception or awareness of the effects of fear now? If the past is telling you the effects of fear, the action is incomplete and therefore contradictory; it brings conflict. But if one is completely aware of the effects of fear now, the action is total.

Q: As I am sitting in the tent now, I have no fear because I am listening to what you are talking about, so I am not afraid. But this fear may come up as I leave the tent.

K: But can?t you, sitting here in this tent, see fear, which you may have had yesterday? Can?t you invoke it, invite it?

Q: It may be life fears.

K: Whatever the fear may be, need you say, ?I have no fears now, but when I go outside I?ll have them?. They are there!

Q: You can invoke it ? as you say ? you can remember it. But this is the point you made about bringing in memory, the thought about fear.

K: I am asking: ?Need I wait until I leave the tent to find out what my fears are? Or, sitting here, can I be aware of them?? I am not afraid at this moment of what someone might say to me. But when I meet the man who is going to say these things, that will frighten me. Can?t I see the actual fact of that now?

Q: If you do that, you are already making a practice of it.

K: No, it is not a practice. You see, you are so afraid of doing anything that might become a practice! Sir, aren?t you afraid of losing your job? Aren?t you afraid of death? Aren?t you afraid of not being able to fulfill? Aren?t you afraid of being lonely? Aren?t you afraid of not being loved? Don?t you have some form of fear?

Q: Only if there is a challenge.

K: But I am challenging you! I can?t understand this mentality!

Q: If there is an impulse you act, you have to do something.

K: No! You are making it so complicated. It is as natural as hearing that train roar by. Either you can remember the noise of that train, or listen actually to that noise. Don?t complicate it, please.

Q: Aren?t you in a way complicating it by talking about invoking fear? I don?t have to invoke any of my fears ? just being here I can survey my reaction.

K: That?s all I am saying.

Q: In order to communicate here we must know the difference between the brain and the mind.

K: We have discussed that before. We are now trying to find out what fear is, learn about it. Is the mind free to learn about fear? Learning being watching the movement of fear. You can only watch the movement of fear when you are not remembering past fears and watching with those memories. Do you see the difference? I can watch the movement. Are you learning about what is actually taking place when there is fear? We are boiling with fear all the time. We don?t seem able to get rid of it. When you had fears in the past and were aware of them, what effect had those fears on you and your environment? What happened? Weren?t you cut off from others? Weren?t the effects of those fears isolating you?

Q: It crippled me.

K: It made you feel desperate, you didn?t know what to do. Now, when there was this isolation, what happened to action?

Q: It was fragmentary.

K: Do listen to this carefully, please. I have had fear in the past and the effects of those fears were to isolate me, to cripple me, to make me feel desperate. There was a feeling of running away, of seeking comfort in something. All that we will call for the moment isolating oneself from all relationship. The effect of that isolation in action is to bring about fragmentation. Didn?t this happen to you? When you were frightened you didn?t know what to do; you ran away from it, or tried to suppress it, or reason it away. And when you had to act you were acting from a fear that is in itself isolating. So an action born out of that fear must be fragmentary. Fragmentation being contradictory, there was a great deal of struggle, pain, anxiety, no?

Q: Sir, a crippled person walks on crutches, so a person who is numbed, crippled by fear, uses various kinds of crutches.

K: That?s what we are saying. That?s right. Now you are very clear about the effect of past fear: it produces fragmentary actions. What is the difference between that and the action of fear without the response of memory? When you meet physical danger what takes place?

Q: Spontaneous action.

K: It is called spontaneous action ? is it spontaneous? Please do inquire, we are trying to find out something. You are in the woods by yourself, in some wild part and suddenly you come upon a bear with cubs ? what happens then? Knowing the bear is a dangerous animal what happens to you?

Q: The adrenalin is increased.

K: Yes, now what is the action that takes place?

Q: You see the danger of transmitting your own fear to the bear.

K: No, what happens to you? Of course if you are afraid you transmit it to the bear and the bear gets frightened and attacks you. Have you ever faced a bear in the woods?

Q: There is someone here who has.

K: I have. That gentleman and I have had many of these experiences during certain years. But what takes place? There is a bear a few feet away from you. There are all the bodily reactions, the flow of adrenalin, and so on; you stop instantly and you turn away and run. What has happened there? What was the response? A conditioned response, wasn?t it? People have told you generation after generation, ?Be careful of wild animals?. If you get frightened you will transmit that fear to the animal and then he will attack you. The whole thing is gone through instantly. Is that the functioning of fear ? or is it intelligence? What is operating? Is it fear that has been aroused by the repetition of ?be careful of the wild animals?, which has been your conditioning from childhood? Or is it intelligence? The conditioned response to that animal and the action of that conditioned response is one thing. The operation of intelligence and the action of intelligence is different; the two are entirely different. Are you meeting this? A bus is rushing by, you don?t throw yourself in front of it; your intelligence says don?t do it. This is not fear ? unless you are neurotic or have taken drugs. Your intelligence, not fear, prevents you.

Q: Sir, when you meet a wild animal don?t you have to have both intelligence and a conditioned response?

K: No, sir. See it. The moment it is a conditioned response there is fear involved in it and that is transmitted to the animal, but not if it is intelligence. So find out for yourself which is operating. If it is fear, then its action is incomplete and therefore there is a danger from the animal; but in the action of intelligence there is no fear at all.

Q: You are saying that if I watch the bear with this intelligence, I can be killed by the bear without experiencing fear.
Q2: If I hadn?t met a bear before, I wouldn?t even know it was a bear.

K: You are all making such complications. This is so simple. Now leave the animals alone. Let us start with ourselves; we are partly animals too.
The effects of fear and its actions based on past memories are destructive, contradictory, and paralyzing. Do we see that? Not verbally but actually; that when you are afraid you are completely isolated and ay action that takes place from that isolation must be fragmentary and therefore contradictory; therefore, there is struggle, pain, and all the rest of it. Now, an action of awareness of fear without all the responses of memory is a complete action. Try it! Do it! Become aware as you are walking alone when you go home; your old fears will come up. Then watch, be aware whether those fears are actual fears, or projected by thought as memory. As the fear arises, see whether you are watching from the response of thought, or whether you are merely watching. What we are talking about is action, because life is action. We are not saying only one part of life is action. The whole of living is action and that action is broken up; the breaking up of action is this process of memory, with its thoughts and isolation. Is that clear?

Q: You mean the idea is to experience totally every split second, without memory entering?

K: Sir, when you put a question like that, you have to investigate the question of memory. You have to have memory ? the clearer, the more definite, the better. If you are to function technologically, or even if you want to get home, you have to have memory. But thought as the response of memory, and projecting fear out of that memory, is an action that is entirely different.
Now, what is fear? How does it happen that there is fear? How do these fears take place? Would you tell me please?

Q: In me it is the attachment to the past.

K: Let?s take that one thing. What do you mean by that word attachment?

Q: The mind is holding on to something.

K: That is, the mind is holding on to some memory. ?When I was young, how lovely everything was?. Or, I am holding on to something that might happen; so I have cultivated a belief that will protect me. I am attached to memory, I am attached to a piece of furniture, I am attached to what I am writing because through writing I will become famous. I am attached to a name, to a family, to a house, to various memories, and so on. I have identified myself with all that. Why does this attachment take place?

Q: Isn?t it because fear is the very basis of our civilization?

K: No sir; why are you attached? What does that word attachment signify? I depend upon something. I depend on you all attending, so that I can talk to you; I am depending on you and therefore I am attached to you, because through that attachment I gain a certain energy, a certain ?lan, and all the rest of that rubbish! So I am attached, which means what? I depend on you; I depend on the furniture. In being attached to the furniture, to a belief, to a book, to the family, to a wife, I am dependent on that to give me comfort, prestige, social position. So dependence is a form of attachment. Now why do I depend? Don?t answer me, look at it in yourself. You depend on something, don?t you? On your country, on your gods, on your beliefs, on the drugs you take, on drink!

Q: It is part of social conditioning.

K: Is it social conditioning that makes you depend? Which means you are part of society; society is not independent of you. You have made society, which is corrupt; you have to put it together. In that cage you are caught, you are a part of it. So don?t blame society. Do you see the implications of dependency? What is involved? Why are you depending?

Q: So as not to feel lonely.

K: Wait, listen quietly. I depend on something because that something fills my emptiness. I depend on knowledge, on books, because that covers my emptiness, my shallowness, my stupidity; so knowledge becomes extraordinarily important. I talk about the beauty of pictures because in myself I depend on that. So dependence indicates my emptiness, my loneliness, my insufficiency, and that makes me depend on you. That is a fact, isn?t it? Don?t theorize, don?t argue with it, it is so. If I were not empty, if I were not insufficient, I wouldn?t care what you said or did. I wouldn?t depend on anything. Because I am empty and lonely I don?t know what to do with my life. I write a stupid book and that fills my vanity. So I depend, which means I am afraid of being lonely; I am afraid of my emptiness. Therefore, I fill it with material things or with ideas, or with people.

Aren?t you afraid of uncovering your loneliness? Have you uncovered your loneliness, your insufficiency, your emptiness? That is taking place now, isn?t it? Therefore, you are afraid of that emptiness now. What are you going to do? What is taking place? Before, you were attached to people, to ideas, to all kinds of things and you see that dependence covers your emptiness, your shallowness. When you see that, you are free aren?t you? Now what is the response? Is that fear the response of memory? Or is that fear actual; do you see it?

I work hard for you, don?t I? [Laughter] There was a cartoon yesterday morning: A little boy says to another boy, ?When I grow up I am going to be a great prophet; I am going to speak of profound truths, but nobody will listen?. And the other little boy says, ?Then why will you talk, if nobody is going to listen?? ?Ah,? he said, ?we prophets are very obstinate?. [Laughter]

So now you have uncovered your fear through attachment, which is dependency. When you look into it you see your emptiness, your shallowness, your pettiness and you are frightened by it. What takes place then? See it, sirs?

Q: I try to escape.

K: You try to escape through attachment, through dependency. Therefore, you are back again in the old pattern. But if you see the truth that attachment and dependency covers your emptiness, you won?t escape, will you? If you don?t see the fact of that, you are bound to run away. You will try to fill that emptiness in other ways. Before, you filled it with drugs, now you fill it with sex or with something else. So when you see the fact of that, what has happened? Proceed, sirs, go on with it! I have been attached to the house, to my wife, to books, to my writing, to becoming famous; I see fear arises because I don?t know what to do with my emptiness and therefore I depend, therefore I am attached. What do I do when I get this feeling of great emptiness in me?

Q: There is a strong feeling.

K: Which is fear. I discover I am frightened; therefore, I am attached. Is that fear the response of memory, or is that fear an actual discovery? Discovery is something entirely different from the response of the past. Now which is it with you? Is it the actual discovery? Or the response of the past? Don?t answer me. Find out, dig into yourself.






Skorpivo?s notes:
Krishnamurti explains, [in other words] that when one is confronted with an actual fear that is real, totally here-now? that individual will usually ?snap-out? of being identified with the bundle of conditioned reflexes; the mind which has the bank of memory and knowledge derived from past experiences and such. In other words, one doesn?t have any TIME to turn the situation... into a ?problem?. What results is, total, immediate action. By contrast, when one has a fear that is not based on the actual; the dimension of Here-Now? it is derived in time; past and/or future. Since this fear is already in such psychological/imaginary time, it often leads to neurotic behavior, as characterized by excessive use of energy for unproductive purposes so that personal growth is hindered or even stopped in some extreme cases.
Krishnamurti also touches upon the subject of our true nature; spacious awareness? and this is the emptiness to which he is referring.
Because of the growth of an ego, i.e. ?the little me?? the surfacing of this nature is covered up and feared, for such exposures of illusions risks the results of dissolving the egoic nature. Yet, this is the precise transcendence that many spiritual teachings point towards. Ironically, if not oddly, many of those wish to achieve this salvation, but do not want to experience such a ?death?. Similar to Sinbad?s signature: Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.
In addition to what Krishnamurti spoke of such fears relating to the discovery of our absolute nature - the stillness and space in which everything takes place; I?d like to add that when one has an ego, a form of some sort of center, inside this spacious awareness? there becomes the illusion of some limit in that center? and because there is no actual boundary or limit in this spacious awareness, ?the ego?s belly can never be satisfied? as Sinbad?s sig also once said. Think of infinite space, in which there IS no limit or boundaries... hence infinity. Then put an imaginary circle within that. It is supported only by your mental projection and such memories relating to it. So when somebody achieves, or gains something to fulfill that circle [ego], that circle is never really filled. It has no actual limits; therefore it will never be fulfilled.
But when there is the genuine realization and acceptance that we are empty; that we are nothing, therefore everything? then there is true satisfaction.

I believe it was Lao Tzu who spoke something along the lines of: ?To be full, you must be empty...?





--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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Re: Fear [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #3604439 - 01/09/05 06:40 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

There ain't no way out but through. :wink:
It's a wrestling match with a demon. Each span of peace is a round I've won.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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