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InvisibleRyche HawkV
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Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY
    #355098 - 07/15/01 01:27 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Heya Folks,
A little something my partner -Clyde- learned while spending some time with P. Stamets a while ago is there is a dealy form of purple contamination to watch out for. Their are 2 kinds we can see in in our hobby. One is an obviously harmless form of trichoderma since so many of us have seen it and been exposed to it without any danger. But their is another form wich can be deadly. -Clyde- seen a thread on this and asked me to post this.

The purple contam that shows up late in the colonization of grain spawn can be, and most likely is, Fusarium
sporothichiodes, the cause of spinal menningitis, which has a 98% fatality rate. Do not handle it! It can enter through
small cuts and breaks in the skin. It often heats up the jar/bag. On agar, seemingly fast growing mycelium looks like
blunt ended spikes, short but definately abnormal, but white. This nasty occurs naturaly on grain. It's presence in culture
indicates incomplete sterilization of the grain. Don't frick with it, reseal it in multiple layers, and pitch it. It is very possible
to accidently culture some serious nasties, so exercise caution and good sence. The general rule is to treat all brightly
colored contams, especially purple, pink, orange, and yellow as dangerous. Don't confuse yellowish mycelial
exudate/metabolite with nasties. It's normal and common to see them. Keep yourselves and your buddies safe, and
immediatly dispose of any questionable cultures, jars, lids and all.

I cant tell you how many times in the past I use to clean out contaminated jars not realizing I was playing with molds that were potentially deadly. These days we just pitch the jars etc... instead of worrying about recycling. Food for thought, be safe :)



-Peace-
www.thehawkseye.com
Sacred Mushroom Spores


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Invisiblepuscle
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #355114 - 07/15/01 01:54 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Now you tell me!



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Offlinecelsius
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #355127 - 07/15/01 02:11 PM (16 years, 10 days ago)

Ryche,

I don't think the pink/purple contamination from my jars are coming from my grain. I believe they are coming from my my syringes. I left 2 rye jars sit there without innoculating them. They have not showed the pink/purple contamination, however, my jars that I have innoculated, they are turning pink and are producing a lot of heat and moisture. How would you know if you have contracted this forn of spinal menningitis?

- Celisus



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Invisibledimitri211
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: celsius]
    #355234 - 07/15/01 04:53 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

And I did not use rye grain and I got it as well.
Maybe it came from there grain??

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OfflineCACA
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #355237 - 07/15/01 05:01 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

meningitis!? that is very serious shit. if you throw the bottle away, couldn't it infect alot of other things?!?

My head is hurting..
DO CACA!


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Offlinecelsius
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: CACA]
    #355319 - 07/15/01 06:46 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

DAMN... if Ryche never told us about this, lots of us would be dead from eating damn shrooms that came from the Sporechicks. It's not like we could sue them if we came down with mennigitis. Fuck... what have the Sporechicks come to? Trying to poison us!! It's conspiracy I'm telling you. haha.. jk

- Celsius... still pissed @ sporechicks.. shady ladies...



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Offlineauto59009
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: celsius]
    #355623 - 07/16/01 06:32 AM (16 years, 9 days ago)

nasty nasty nasty *NASTY* shit... that actually scares me...

I am a compulsive liar :wink:
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OfflineDoc
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: auto59009]
    #355748 - 07/16/01 12:13 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Hello Shamans
I wanted to add some information concerning meningitis:
The 3 most common types of bacterial meningitis is
1.Neisseria meningitis- Fatality rate of about 5%
2. Hemophilus influenzae-Fatality rate of about 6%
3.Streptococcus pneumoniae- fatlity rate of about 27-40%
Meningitis can be caused by differnt types of patogens such as bacteria, fungi, and protozoans.
A fungal disease of the nervous system(rare) is caused by Cryptococcus Neoformans can cause meningitis. It's found in the soil due to pigeon droppings.
People with comprimised immune system are more at risk than anyone in contracting meningitis.. I have more info later.



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Invisibleisis
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: celsius]
    #355808 - 07/16/01 02:47 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Celisus,
Some of the symptoms of meningitis are headache,fever, stiff neck,light sensitivity, vomiting, cold like symptoms,red rash or red or purple areas on the skin.(almost like an indian burn or as severe as bruising). With some of the most severe types , people think they have a severe cold or flu, they go to bed and they never wake up o or wake up critically ill within 24hrs. Not to freak you out,but if you all the sudden feel aweful, I would get checked out.It's not worth waiting to find out if you feel better the next day when it comes to this. Specially if you know you've been exposed to a fungus of some kind.I've seen people die in 24hrs with some severe forms of meningitis.3M, one of the vendors, became severely ill and almost died after being expose to aspergillus niger.Different fungus, but just as deadly.



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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #355820 - 07/16/01 03:19 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

Fastlink--> http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/meningitis.html

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Invisiblefuzzysquirelnuts
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: MAIA]
    #355823 - 07/16/01 03:32 PM (16 years, 9 days ago)

i was wondering if its a problem on outdoor patches is there any way youd be able to tell by looking at a shroom if you didnt notice anything on the substrate

:shocked:S.W.E.D:shocked:


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OfflineDoc
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: isis]
    #356158 - 07/17/01 08:38 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Thanks isis,
I wanted to add the symptoms of meningitis but I was unable to yesterday.



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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: Doc]
    #356194 - 07/17/01 10:23 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Hey Doc, I have a question;

Bacterial meningitis is always touted as very contagious, thus the big media blitzes whenever a case is verified. Would this be true for a mycotic meningitis? My instinct would be NO, but I'm no Doc ;)

Personally, I think any fear of this Fusarium should be reserved for the immunocompromised; for the vast majority of people, the greatest risk from these various molds is anaphylaxis if predisposed to such. I'd be interested in reading the published articles about this Fusarium meningitis, will check out pubmed.

---------------------------------------------------------
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11051295&dopt=Abstract
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Neuropediatrics 1991 May;22(2):110-2

Fusarium meningoencephalitis in a child with acute leukemia.

Agamanolis DP, Kalwinsky DK, Krill CE Jr, Dasu S, Halasa B, Galloway PG.

Department of Pathology and Pediatrics (Hematology-Oncology), Children's Hospital Medical Center, Akron, Ohio.

A 15-year-old boy with acute lymphoblastic leukemia (ALL) developed disseminated fusarium infection with meningoencephalitis following a contaminated skin wound. With antifungal therapy, the cutaneous lesions cleared but central nervous system (CNS) infection persisted causing a fibrosing meningitis and a brain granuloma. Fusaria are soil saprophytes that are more commonly associated with superficial eye and skin lesions, but may also cause severe systemic infections with CNS involvement in immuno-compromised patients. The organism may be confused with Aspergillus in tissue sections, and can only be diagnosed by culture.
--------------------------------------------------
: J Neurosurg 1983 Apr;58(4):598-601 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Fusarium brain abscess. Case report.

Steinberg GK, Britt RH, Enzmann DR, Finlay JL, Arvin AM.

The common soil fungus, Fusarium, is rarely pathogenic in man but occasionally causes serious disease, particularly in immunocompromised hosts. A case is reported of Fusarium brain abscess and meningitis occurring in a patient with chronic infectious mononucleosis syndrome and immunodeficiency. The patient died despite aspiration of the abscess and treatment with amphotericin B. This case demonstrates the importance of identifying the offending pathological organism through abscess aspiration in immunocompromised patients.
-------------------------------------------------------

Every filamentous fungal meningitis case I could find involved immunocompromised patients.
I'd still wager that allergic reactions should be of more widespread concern.

Suntzu





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Offlineegghead
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #356200 - 07/17/01 10:37 AM (16 years, 8 days ago)

Thanks for the info Ryche & Clyde.. Sounds like another good reason to be using filter patch bags.

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InvisibleJared
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Deleted [Re: celsius]
    #356609 - 07/18/01 02:35 AM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Content Removed.


Edited by Jared (04/01/04 03:12 AM)


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InvisibleGreat_Cthulhu
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: Jared]
    #356624 - 07/18/01 03:19 AM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Don't laugh at it..took the following from a post I made in vendors section.

'Meningitis is the inflamation of the meninges which are the membranes that cover your brain and spinal cord. There are many different micro-organisms that can cause this...viral and bacterial. Viral meningitis is relatively harmless and is more like catching the flu for a week or so leaving no after effects. The micro-orgranisms that cause it must enter into your bloodstream somehow...usually from an infection you have elsewhere like sinuses or ears. Sometimes from head wounds such as a skull fracture. I suppose it 'could' transfer to you from a cut if you touched it to infected material and the cut gets infected. Viral meningitis is non-life threatening as I said and does not require treatment..but we aren't worried about the viral type eh. Bacterial meningitis is much much more serious. It can and most likely will kill you if left untreated. However if it is caught early massive doses of intravenous antibiotics can usually kill it...though sometimes causing brain damage...probably depends on how soon you notice it and get it treated also how well/fast the antibiotics wipe out the infection. As for symptoms... meningitis depending on the type can cause headaches,vomiting, high fever. A more telltale sign is a stiff/sore neck and an unusual sensitivity/dislike to light(like going out in the sun and it's too bright for you). I believe those 2 symptoms occur with all types of meningitis though I'm not a doctor myself...if anyone here is feel free to shoot in some facts. With meningococcal meningitis(most common bacterial type) the symptoms begin to appear within a few hours sometimes followed by sleepyness ..sometimes loss of consciousness. With other types the main symptoms can take longer to appear. That's about it...if I were anyone here on this board and got a bacterial contamination in ANY jars of ANY type I'd just throw it the hell out if I wasn't absolutely SURE what it was. It's my new rule for the future. There are lots of nasty bacteria... and there are many different types of bacteria that cause meningitis and other unpleasant illnesses. As is often said better safe than sorry.'

Note that there are many different organisms that can cause meningitis which makes vaccinations fairly ineffective unless your running into the 'particular' organism you were vaccinated for.

"That is not dead which may eternal lie..and with strange eons even death may die."

Edited by Great_Cthulhu on 07/18/01 02:19 AM.



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Invisibleisis
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: Jared]
    #356716 - 07/18/01 10:30 AM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Jared, the vaccination you got will only protect you from the specific bacteria you were vaccinated against. (Probably pneumococcal meningitis) It won't protect you against the other types. So, you are can still get other forms of menigitis.
Just thought you should know....
And Suntzu is probably right about immuno suppressed people being most suceptible, but one can never be too careful.

Edited by isis on 07/18/01 09:34 AM.



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OfflineDoc
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: Suntzu]
    #356724 - 07/18/01 10:59 AM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Hello Shamans,
It seems everyone has good info about meningitis-some more of a personal experince. The orthopedic test for meningeal irritation is called Brudzinski- the person can be laying down on their back and you passively flex the head toward the chest. If both legs flex ( kness bend) this indicates meningeal irritation. Our immune system is very good at protecting us but the foods we eat, our lifestyles, stress etc.. can affect our immune system. As for your comment about allergic reaction- Autism has been linked to DPT shots/immunization. This causes an allergic reaction from the shot causing swelling in the brain but this is a whole new topic.

Edited by Doc on 07/18/01 12:37 PM.



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InvisibleRyche HawkV
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: celsius]
    #356770 - 07/18/01 02:12 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Now dont everybody get to freaked out by this but definatly throw caution to the wind. Myself and -Clyde- have seen and worked around this purple mold many times and we are still here, but now much wiser on how to handle it.
Like I said, there are 2 kinds of mold that produce this purple/pink color, one of them is merely a form of trichoderma, the green mold we all see so often.

Just everyone be safe and properly handle and dispose of nasty looking molds, especially purple ones.
Seal them in several ziplock bags when you throw them away, perhaps even put them in a box sealed real good so they dont break later and accidently infect anyone wandering around the dump dropping off their trash.

Many moons ago I got very sick from cleaning/recycling contaminated or stalled jars. Some sort of virus knocked my ass down for almost a month before the anti-biotics beat it. Nobody else where I worked then was sick so I'm pretty sure it was from sitting out back cleaning out those contaminated jars and I picked up some mold in my lungs that felt like death was knocking on my door. I rarily get sick for more then a couple of days so it was something beyond the common flu.
If you have contaminated jars or casings just pitch them carefully. You never know when your really playing with fire or a harmless mold. No sense in taking a chances when a new box of jars can be had for about $7 compared to hundereds of dollars in medical bills.

As for where it comes from, I've seen it many times start from a syringe, and 2 weeks later the grain is turning purple. That is the problem with this purple/pink mold, which I believe is the trichoderma kind, is it does not show up right away in test batches. Usually the mycelium is growing nice and healthy, then 2 weeks later the purple streaks show up.
So dont be to down on sporechicks right now for those syringes they sent out producing it, no doubt it was done on accident. There was an incident about 8 months ago here where ecuador syringes from sporechicks, thehawkseye, and one other vendor, were all producing this purple/pink contamination, more then likely trichoderma. All 3 vendors at once....many posts and pictures going on here about it. And I can assure you none of us planned it :) its just a tough mold to catch. We let our test batchs sit a minimum of 3 weeks now before pulling syringes just to make sure this pink/purple mold does not show up.
Anyway, just properly handle and dispose of contaminated cultures and their should not be any problems.



-Peace-
www.thehawkseye.com
Sacred Mushroom Spores


--------------------
-Peace-

High Quality MUSHROOM SPORES and CULTURES  for microscopy at www.muShrooms.com


muShrooms.com is the new web site of
www.thehawkseye.com


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OfflineDoc
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Re: Purple/Pink contamination can be DEADLY [Re: Ryche Hawk]
    #357031 - 07/19/01 12:28 AM (16 years, 6 days ago)

I respect your concern and comments Ryche.
This is one of the reasons I joined the forum. Thanks to you and others for your ideas and hard work. People on a mission to spread the truth.



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