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Offlinefireworks_godS
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My Concentrated View On All Of This
    #3496565 - 12/14/04 12:27 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

This is in regards to the recent ban of Swami, and I will start off with a quote of Shroomism:

Quote:

Shroomism said:
trendal is not fabricating anything when he says that many S&P members have stopped posting in this forum altogether because they feel that they cannot express themselves without having their threads and ideas ripped apart. In the 5 years that I have been modding here I have personally received at least 40 PMs by different people on this very subject. People who fear to post their beliefs and thoughts in this forum for fear of being lashed out on and having their character 'cut down to size' as it were.




I am baffled that a person would be banned when they get complaints at a rate of eight per year, when their are countless people posting in S and P who do not wish to see action taken agansit Swami, and not only that, but a majority of active posters have expressed that they are disappointed that Swami was banned. Far more members have praised Swami for playing his necessary part in the S and P experience than the ones who have complained. I do not understand why the administration will cater to such a small, infrequent minority when it alienates and distresses the active majority.

Not only that, but these people that are expressing wishes to have Swami to be banned are suffering apparent social problems, if they have an actual fear of posting thoughts here. Swami obviously isn't responsible for the way others feel, especially since the majority of posters who constantly interface with Swami contend that he is not flaming and that he is not lashing out. It is not the responsibility of every poster in S and P to foster people who have pre-existing neurotic problems. The majority of people posting in Spirituality and Philosophy have grown and matured enough, to the level of adults (as we are all suspossed to be, after all) to be able to not have problems expressing themselves in situations of indirect human contact, and to be able to cope with the fact that others naturally are going to hold different viewpoints and challenge our own. I think it is unfair that we are expected to play a kindergarden version of discussion because we have to cater to the lowest common denominator, which happens to be a vast minority.

Quote:


Personally, I have nothing against Swami. I also see him as a valuable contributor and a good person at heart.. however that does not mean he is above the rules and can belittle the members here.




I have not seen any evidence of Swami belittling members in Spirituality and Philosophy or breaking any rules. The one example that was presented was a clearly objective statement that was not a personal attack of any sort. Swami has never openly flamed anyone, and has shown a consistent level of respect for all posters, even though some might perceive a lack thereof merely because his points disagree with theirs, or because they have an overactive ego constantly imagining threat and attack, projecting more onto his statements than he ever intended or meant.

I find it amazing that people are constricting and controlling the discussion of ideas in a forum that is suspossedly conducive to open, spiritual debate... I find it harsh that we are not allowed to discuss these matters in our own forum, as this issue directly relates to the happenings of our forum. We are a small, personal community, and to seperate discussion of this in our community is simply a control tactic. Our freedom of expression on topics relevant to our forum is being limited and divided. It is proclaimed that spirituality is a very personal thing, and that is why we must allow everyone the space to express it, but others with power who disagree with how certain people express their spirituality and try to teach others spriituality prevent them from doing so.

I find it unbelievable that certain people had to completely disrupt the flow of Spirituality and Philosophy in this manner. Taking that first step of unnecessary control has created chaos in a natural order that was running itself properly. Banning Swami when he did no clear, objective, majority-critisized wrong is an action that belies the very essence of spirituality. It is the equivalent of Shroomism being arrested for drug possession, really. Far more people have acclaimed Swami for directly assisting in their spiritual growth and evolution than those who have bitched and moaned about his inability to allow spiritual discussion (probably the equivalent of an egotistical student who creates an uproar when a fair teacher gave him a deserving, but low, grade on a test).

I have lost a lot of respect for Trendal, I have lost a lot of respect for Shroomism, and if Kaiowas supported the banning of Swami, I have lost even more respect for him (as I personally know him, and such actions would contradict his character). I think it is sad that a whiny minority, with pre-existing emotional and social problems before they ever even interacted with Swami, is being catered to and favored over a majority of interactive posters who love and support the community in which they participate and grow in.

If we are continued to be alienated, I will no longer be able to participate in this community, as what would remain of the community would offer nothing towards the profound benefits it offered before this whole ordeal had to be provoked. Spirituality and Philosophy cannot exist in a space such as what this place inevitably will become if this trend continues...  :frown:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3496608 - 12/14/04 12:38 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

:thumbup:

we're still waiting for examples of Swami's offenses (with links, of course). If there are just sooo many and these are just sooo clearly in volation of rules, then it should not be difficult to pull up a few, no? As of the date of my posting, both Trendal and Shroomism (as well as those who support the ban) have yet to provide anything substantial  and they appear downright hostile when asked to present their case. I guess they are not interested in fairness, transparency, and our respect. Hopefully this is not true.

Quote:

If we are continued to be alienated, I will no longer be able to participate in this community, as what would remain of the community would offer nothing towards the profound benefits it offered before this whole ordeal had to be provoked.




Yes, agreed.


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Invisiblebf6
Keep the highfive alive!

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 3,121
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Vvellum]
    #3496671 - 12/14/04 12:58 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Why was he banned? Specifics please.


--------------------
The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of life, your memories, your attachments. They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you, they're freeing your soul. So, if you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away, but if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth...

bloodflower6

Yay for Pornography!


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OfflineTodcasil
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Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Vvellum]
    #3496683 - 12/14/04 01:01 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

i never had a problem with swami.  finding out about P Cubensis brought me here, S&P kept me here, regardless if i migrated to the pub lately :smile:

there is an ignore button if people find him to abbrasive.

peace


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.


~Casil



:cactus:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: bf6]
    #3496700 - 12/14/04 01:05 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

bf6 said:
Why was he banned? Specifics please.




Essentially, people with observable problems with fundamental aspects of interacting with others felt emotionally attacked and angry with words that Swami typed, usually because Swami did not directly agree with them, and they felt the need to bitch and moan. Apparently banning a praised member of the community because a small handful of people have troubles with understanding basic thought processes solves the problem.  :rolleyes:

The majority of posters in Spirituality and Philosophy seem to be agansit the banning of Swami. Aren't those the people that count?

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Todcasil]
    #3496723 - 12/14/04 01:11 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Todcasil said:
there is an ignore button if people find him to abbrasive.





Exactly. When the problem only lies in the eyes of a small group of people, the ignore button is essential, as the rest of us who have no difficulty seeing clearly do not have to suffer. The ban button should only be used if a poster is actually creating an objectively-perceivable disruptance of the flow of the discussion. Swami has never done that, and does not deserve to be banned.

Perhaps if the majority of the S and P posters saw Swami as a nuisance who is interupting spiritual and philosophical debate, his ban would be necessary, but there is actually a greater percentage of people that directly attribute Swami for greatly helping them learn important spiritual lessons. Swami is not a moron and does not have ill intents - his purpose is clear to those who are open to learning from him.

It is one thing for an individual to not want to read another's words, it is another for them to feel they have the righteousness to take away other's right to read that person's words.  :confused:  :shake:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3496766 - 12/14/04 01:19 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

It is quite simple really. Trendal and shroomism obviously caught the "power tripping" bug that mr.mushrooms used to have. Remember the crap mr.mushrooms caused that forum? Good thing he is gone. Now shroomism and trendal should leave... they obviously are doing a poor job.

Let's also be realistic. Shroomism can't stand swami. Shroomism used to literally preach in that forum about ridiculous stuff. He has been exposed as a fraud and liar. Refusing to hold up bargains, and lying about swami being banned at other websites (he hasn't). Shroomism needs to leave that forum ASAP.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3496846 - 12/14/04 01:32 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

>The majority of posters in Spirituality and Philosophy seem to be agansit the banning of
>Swami. Aren't those the people that count?

First, let me say that I do not post in S&P and as thus didn't actively partake in the moderator discussion about Swami. I am neither for not against the banning, I have no opinion on this subject.

I am good at numbers though and would like to throw in some:

You say the "majority of the posters in s&P seems to be against the banning".

Well, let's look at the thread where the banning has been discussed:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3489534

There were 43 posters in that thread, rougly 38 have expressed their dissapproval of the ban.

In the last 14 days there were 142 distinct posters in S&P.
In the last 30 days there were 198 distinct posters in S&P.
In the last 60 days there were 262 distinct posters in S&P.

The point is, the majority is NOT (at least not actively) against the banning.

My 2 cents.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Anno]
    #3496905 - 12/14/04 01:43 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

LOL, holy shit... Anno... that wasn't a serious post was it? Please say it wasn't.........


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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Invisiblezorbman
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Registered: 06/04/04
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Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Anno]
    #3496907 - 12/14/04 01:43 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

There were 43 posters in that thread, rougly 38 have expressed their dissapproval of the ban.


What that tells me is that an overwhelming 88 percent of those that cared enough to voice their opinion are against the ban of Swami.

I think you should listen to them.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Anno]
    #3496921 - 12/14/04 01:47 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

My surmise that the majority of the posters were agansit the banning was determined by taking a look at all of the views expressed concerning the banning... I acknowledge that many have not expressed their views on the matter, but I feel that the fact that roughly 38 of 43 posters in a thread exclusively concerning the matter expressed that they were agansit the banning definitely gives some evidence, if not total evidence, that the majority are agansit the banning. It certainly wasn't a scientific analysis, but I think it reflects a common trend.

Also, that's crazy that we've had 262 different people post in S and P in one month... :nut:

One addendum: Is it possible to determine the amount of distinct posters in Spirituality and Philosophy over the past five years, and then compare it to the reported roughly 40 people that have PM'ed Shroomism, complaining about Swami? Even if the amount of people doing such was double that amount, that would only be half of the current amount of active members this month... I imagine that percentage would be rather insignifigant as compared to sixty months.... :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3496976 - 12/14/04 02:04 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

I'd also like to point out that when pressed, the moderators either didn't care to, or weren't able to produce any examples of Swami being bad.

How about a new rule. If you don't want people to debate with you, put a note in your opening post saying "opposing viewpoints frighten and confuse me, and I don't want to hear them", and then it's against the rules to debate in that thread.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Phluck]
    #3497059 - 12/14/04 02:24 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
How about a new rule. If you don't want people to debate with you, put a note in your opening post saying "opposing viewpoints frighten and confuse me, and I don't want to hear them", and then it's against the rules to debate in that thread.




Either that, or direct posters who do not wish to have open idea exchange with others, which includes the possibillity that their ideas might be challenged, to the Pub. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3497176 - 12/14/04 02:41 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

When at least one of the mods who led the effort to ban Swami have known personal issues with him, I think that's awfully fishy and worth looking into by the admins. Especially considering that, incredibly, we STILL have yet to see any clear evidence that Swami broke any rules! Everything that has been put out so far has been seen as insulting only in the eye of the beholder. Interestingly, those beholders all had personal issues with Swami. S&P is not the place to settle old scores or indulge in personal vendettas. My opinion of this as being a fair place is definitely changing over this.

Before this thing is over, I predict we will also hear of public lies being told to justify Swami's ban as well as the unauthorized reading of PMs. This whole thing stinks to high heaven and hopefully someone who cares about justice will look into this travesty and fix it before people's reputations are further damaged.

Please re-instate Swami and repremand the mods who initiated this ban.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Invisibledorkus
don't look back
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Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: zorbman]
    #3497256 - 12/14/04 02:51 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

What a strange move by mods. (Make that 39) :wink:

This drama boggles my mind. People reveal different parts of their personalities during turbulent times for sure. The community steps into new clothes.

Peace


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Invisibleeric_the_red
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Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3497388 - 12/14/04 03:16 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

"I have not seen any evidence of Swami belittling members"

i have and i really don't even go in to s&p that often.

i'm not taking sides, just stating a fact. it doesn't matter to me one bit if swami is forced to take a vacation or not. i'm sure the feeling is mutual; a 15 day ban is not a big deal.


--------------------


Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave


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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
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Registered: 06/04/04
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Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: eric_the_red]
    #3497406 - 12/14/04 03:21 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

i really don't even go in to s&p that often




--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: eric_the_red]
    #3497418 - 12/14/04 03:23 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

eric_the_red said:
i have and i really don't even go in to s&p that often.





Then you really don't know enough of what goes on in there to form a reality reflecting conclusion on what has been happening, right?

Point out some specific examples so we know exactly what you consider to be belittlement of others, so we can judge for ourselves whether or not your opinion is well justified. :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibleeric_the_red
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 12,831
Loc: happy land
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: zorbman]
    #3497423 - 12/14/04 03:24 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Quote:

i really don't even go in to s&p that often






but when i do, i notice swami is still there belittling people. the issue was not how often i visit, but what i see when i do visit.

this is just an observation. i don't have anything against swami.

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Point out some specific examples




i did have one in mind, because it was a thread i posted in. i can't find it now. i think that thread ended up getting moved or deleted due to flaming.

"Then you really don't know enough of what goes on in there to form a reality reflecting conclusion on what has been happening, right?"

yes, i do. i used to go in s&p often, but tired of it.
i've been here longer than swami. i was here when he first started posting. i know his style of posting and it doesn't bother me personally. if people can't take the heat, they can go elsewhere.


--------------------


Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave


Edited by eric_the_red (12/14/04 03:32 PM)


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Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
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Registered: 06/04/04
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Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: eric_the_red]
    #3497436 - 12/14/04 03:28 PM (13 years, 3 days ago)

I'm still waiting for specific rules violations rather than someone's unsubstantiated opinion of what Swami supposedly intended.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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