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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Rose]
    #3498306 - 12/14/04 06:13 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Much of the HARD evidence exists only in PRIVATE.

Wait a minute.

What are you talking about?

I thought this was about Swami's *** PUBLIC *** postings where he 'repeatedly' broke the rules.

How can the evidence be private?

Is this about Swami's PMs? Are there S&P rules governing private PMs?

I'm confused. How can relevant evidence be private?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Rose]
    #3498318 - 12/14/04 06:16 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Swami broke the rules. SEVERAL times.



Could you please cite which rules he broke and some specific instances of him breaking them? Thanks.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Rose]
    #3498339 - 12/14/04 06:20 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Well, the fact is, we've been asking him to slightly adjust his behavior for YEARS... and he never has. Only NOW, did he get a ban.

Look, let's cut to the chase.

Do you really believe for one second that after the ban Swami will 'adjust his posting style' whatever the hell that means?

If you don't beleive he will, and I know you don't, then is it a froegone conclusion that he will subsequently be permabanned?

This seems a given since the 'lesson' you're arrogantly trying to teach him is not going to be accepted.


==


So, a direct question to the mods and admins:

If Swami, post-ban, refuses to censor his style in any way, will he be permabanned?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Diploid]
    #3498442 - 12/14/04 06:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I wish the mods could step back and look at the double-speak that is flowing from their fingers. The fact that it has required 5-6 of them to all join in on the fight to make their non-existent points shows a real lack of credibility and desperation. We are LAUGHING at the nonsense of the whole lot of you. Put your tail between your legs and admit you were wrong.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Rose]
    #3498450 - 12/14/04 06:32 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

BTW, Swami thumbing his nose at a polite warning, was all a mod needed to ban him.

If a mod asked you to stop doing something, and you practically told 'em to "Shove it." Wouldn't you be risking bannishment? This isn't rocket science.


Be careful!

I would be willing to bet that Swami did no such thing as 'thumbing his nose' or telling anyone to 'shove it' and I'm pretty sure that Swami, given his style, will be more than happy to post his outgoing PMs publicly once his ban is lifted.

Don't make yourself look silly after the fact.

Just some advice for whatever it's worth...


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinedaimyo
Monticello

Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 7,751
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Rose]
    #3498480 - 12/14/04 06:36 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

My thoughts...Remove the ban man, damn.


--------------------
"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Diploid]
    #3498545 - 12/14/04 06:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Much of the HARD evidence exists only in PRIVATE.

Wait a minute.

What are you talking about?

I thought this was about Swami's *** PUBLIC *** postings where he 'repeatedly' broke the rules.

How can the evidence be private?

Is this about Swami's PMs? Are there S&P rules governing private PMs?

I'm confused. How can relevant evidence be private?





I am confused as well.

Seems to me the mods and admins are just coming up more and more excuses that grow lamer by the hour.


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: looner2]
    #3498548 - 12/14/04 06:47 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I wish the mods could step back and look at the double-speak that is flowing from their fingers. The fact that it has required 5-6 of them to all join in on the fight to make their non-existent points shows a real lack of credibility and desperation. We are LAUGHING at the nonsense of the whole lot of you. Put your tail between your legs and admit you were wrong.




:thumbup:


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InvisibleJellric
altered statesman

Registered: 11/08/98
Posts: 2,261
Loc: non-local
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Vvellum]
    #3498563 - 12/14/04 06:49 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Seems to me the mods and admins are just coming up more and more excuses that grow lamer by the hour.

If this was a fight it would have been stopped by now.

Seems time for a compromise to restore the peace.


--------------------
I AM what Willis was talkin' bout.


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: geokills]
    #3498604 - 12/14/04 06:54 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Keep up the discussion.. we are listening.




I really hope this is true, but I do not think it is. I think your words are a false politeness. I have [once again] lost respect for the moderators and administration, particularly those who initiated and supported Swami's bogus banning. I think I speak for many when I say the moderator ranks need new blood - there are some absurd abuses going on 'round here. Personally, I think Trendal and Shroomism should step down, preferably by resignation.


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Jellric]
    #3498617 - 12/14/04 06:56 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

I'm all for peace as soon as Swami is unbanned and Trendal and Shroomism apologize and/or step down.


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Jellric]
    #3498622 - 12/14/04 06:57 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

This is reminding me of Bush's war more and more

He made a reason, but then when it was questioned and found to be false, he changed it to something more vague and supportable. Then it was continued to be questioned, so he made up new ones, until by the end his reasons for going to Iraq were completely different from the reasons at the beginning

And just like that one I bet there is some personal issues here that the mods are dealing with by banning Swami

If the evidence is on S&P to support a 15 day ban, there should be a post of it, accumulated to at least shut up the dissident protesters. If there is no evidence on S&P, then where is it?


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisibleeric_the_red
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/28/03
Posts: 12,831
Loc: happy land
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Diploid]
    #3498632 - 12/14/04 06:59 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
This it should be a simple matter for you to find *ONE* such post.
Very convenient. How about all the others that must exist given your statement above:




i don't care enough about this issue to dig for any posts. considering what cervantes said, the thread i had in mind may be in the mod or admin forum.

Quote:

I dunno you, so I dunno if you've been here a long time under another name, but your current name Regged in February '03, Swami regged in January '00. That's ~3 years longer than you.




i know when swami registered. my growlog puppet was regged in '99 and i made that over a year after i first registered. :wink:


Quote:

And most what time you have spent here you spent in OTD, not S&P.




what makes you think you know where i spend/have spent my time on this site?
before i asked moe to ban my previous name and switched over to eric_the_red, i spent very little time in otd and probably had less than 10 posts in otd.

not that it matters, but if your reg date is your original, i would be willing to bet a large sum of money that i have spent more hours in s&p over the years than you have, even though i haven't visited it much (and have posted next to nothing) in the last two years.


--------------------


Anno cock? is that some kind of Greek liqueur? -Geo's All Knowing Sex Slave


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OfflineKremlin
life in E minor
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Registered: 06/07/01
Posts: 1,860
Loc: /export/home/Kremlin
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Vvellum]
    #3498646 - 12/14/04 07:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

(not directed at you bi0, just what i clicked)

everyone is so quick to turn against the administration on this site. Something happens and then its a flurry of "I've really lost all respect for [insert person/position] this time guys". Im not dissapointed in the administration, im dissapointed in the membership. What does your respect mean in the first place if you are always so quick to take it away? Then it becomes a bargaining piece, not respect. And i love all this "I'm leaving if he leaves" discussion, thats so childish.

There is no large conspiracy at play here, they made a decision that they felt was warranted based on information that they are privy to as administrators and moderators. They said they are open to the fact of reducing the ban time.

It sounds like a pack of wolves in here. Any large organization needs some kind of centralized administration, and there will always be those who just hate having people above them.


--------------------
"Human suffering has been caused because all too many of us cannot grasp that words are only tools for our use, and that the mere presence of a word in the dictionary does not mean it necessarily refers to something definitive in the real world"
--Richard Dawkins, "The Selfish Gene"

"It is the mind which creates the world about us, and even though we stand side by side in the same meadow, my eyes will never see what is beheld by yours."
-George Gissing

"Without a firm idea of himself and the purpose of his life, man cannot live, and would sooner destroy himself than remain on earth, even if he was surrounded by bread."
--Fyodor Dostoevsky


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Ravus]
    #3498647 - 12/14/04 07:01 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Exactly.


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InvisibleVvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Kremlin]
    #3498679 - 12/14/04 07:05 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

What does your respect mean in the first place if you are always so quick to take it away?




See, I've been around these forums since the Lycaeum days (1998 or so). I consider the Shrommery to be a home of mine, so when abuses such as these occur, I am that much more enraged. Why? Because I care about this place. Actions such as these (and the lame excuses and rationalizations that have followed) threaten my community. When bad shit goes down, we must take a stand.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Rose]
    #3498689 - 12/14/04 07:08 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Mods aren't allowed to post PM's or discussion from PRIVATE forums.

It is no conspiracy, just against the rules. I can't post more than I did, without permission.


If all the mods and admins agree, then their is no reason for their discussions re Swami not to be made public. If they do not agree to make their discussion public, then what are they hiding?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Rose]
    #3498698 - 12/14/04 07:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

If you want us to admit our mistakes, you will be disapointed... Mods never fuck up.

This comment was made in jest. That it's been mistaken as a sincere post is telling. :syringe:


Edited by Diploid (12/16/04 02:25 AM)


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OfflineNomad
Mad Robot

Registered: 04/30/02
Posts: 422
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: Kremlin]
    #3498699 - 12/14/04 07:09 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

Any large organization needs some kind of centralized administration, and there will always be those who just hate having people above them.

Fuck that.

I wonder how such a complete misdecision is possible in the first place?

It is obvious in an almost ridiculous way that you cannot just ban Swami and go ahead as if nothing happened. That this would cause a wave of dissent from S&P is so damn clear that the internals of the Shroomery really start to mystify me. I mean, is there no fucking communication taking place between the admins and the mods? The S&P mods should be aware of the dynamics in that place, and be able to give out a warning to the admins if they engage in such a blatant error.

Is ass-licking all there really is?

I disagree with Swami on almost any issue, except that banana cake with nuts is tasty. But the guy is a defining factor of S&P, and you cannot just pluck the thorns from a rose and expect it to survive. The whole style of S&P was influenced by him, from the subtle, like humor, to the not-so-subtle, like the famous reading-comprehension-problem insult, a real classic. If I remember it correctly, even the quoting style which is used by me and a lot of other people, where you copy & paste the part you reply to and bold it out, was invented by Swami - that was before the time the billboard system had an official quoting option.

One would expect that such a long-standing member gets an award, not a ban.

The issue is not that the ban is temporary. If I were Swami, I would be so pissed off that I would not return. Goddamn, I'm not Swami and I'm so pissed off that I will leave. In that, I follow the example of another S&P regular who already took his hat.

Anyway, it's been a pleasure. Farewell.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
Blue Mantis
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: My Concentrated View On All Of This [Re: fireworks_god]
    #3498718 - 12/14/04 07:12 PM (17 years, 6 months ago)

id like to jump in and say, although the ban may be a bit on the harsh side, this isnt some kind of personal vengeance or persecution against swami.

There ARE several clearly stated rules for S&P posting, and i have clearly seen swami break many of them.

In at least one recent thread he reduced himself to ad hominem attacks, calling someone and there ideas "moronic" and then when called on that said he should be able to call things as they are, even if that means blatant insults.

Personally i find it kind of sad that someone as old as my father cant find ways to disagree without resorting to words like moron.

Hes made a number of TOTALLY off topic posts here, which shouldnt result in a ban but it is kind of strange .

Hes started a number of threads for the specific and obvious purpose of baiting others. Sometimes he makes a transparent attempt to cover up the baiting with some vaguelyphilosophical point but to me at least its clearly baiting.

Aside from those direct rule violations he often annoyed me (not that thats a reason for banning obviously) by repeatedly breaking the etiquette rules as outlined in the "how not to talk" sticky thread, Re: nitpicking, for one, and disapearing or going silent whenever his points are under fire.

I always had the strong sense that the guy had a total lack of interest in learning OR teaching. Youll never hear him say "thats interesting ill have to think about that" or "i never saw it that way"

in fact i dont recall ever hearing a positive comment come out of his mouth, but he sure as hell tears apart the tiniest 'flaw' , sometimes reducing himself to bitching about someones grammar or punctuation when he cant find anything else to grab on to.

He was extrememly hypocritical when it came to his own discussion rules. hed jump all over you for not citing sources, or using anecdotal evidence, etc, but he CONSTANTLY used 'recent examples' from his own life (anecdotal evidence) to prove his points, and the worst one i remember was when i asked him to cite a source on something he said and he went off about how it wasnt his responsibility and i should use google.

Id said the EXACT same thing to him on NUMEROUS occasions that he demanded "source and link"

for all that though, i think the place was much better WITH swami than without him.

I think a temporary ban is a good idea. For one thing the guy clearly spends ungodly amounts of time here, and maybe this will give him the motivation to go get some fresh air.

But more to the point im hoping that When he comes back (and i do hope he DOES come back) he will be a bit more respectfull towards the forum rules and the other members.

now all yall should get your panties straightend out, take a deep breath and go back to business as usual. you can survive without swami for 2 weeks.

go smoke a bowl


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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