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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Advanced Mycology
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Re: extraction
    #306557 -

i know the procedure and have access to proper solvents, just was looking for some analytical data concerning the purity that can be obtained and it's form (dry, white powder?)
could this be insulfated/taken sublingually?
basically, how pure can extraction get, since none of the extractions are specific for psilocin/psilocybin, there are additional organics (other alkaloids?) that will remain in the final residue.

about the cranberry juice: basically, you can extract with an organic solvent, and alcohol, or an acid.
cranberry juice is acidic, an i imagine chosen for the taste since your preparation involves immediate consumption, not further refinement.
however, while this may work, i would imagine that the acidity of cranberry juice isn't extracting the full potential of the culture, however, if you ingest the entire concoction, i'm sure that digestive enzymes will get at the remaining stuff.

Edited by gray1 on 05/01/01 04:30 PM.


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Re: extraction [Re: gray1]
    #306792 -

Someone, I think it was CobaltbluePrimate [or a thread he posted in], posted a link to some work that was done specifically on psilocybin/cin extraction and purification. I don't remember much more than that the alcohol/water mix worked better than either absolute alcohol or an acidic aqueous soln.
If you really wanted to do it right, it would take some research. . .column purification. You'd have to formulate the right column, and do a decent extraction first. If you do it right, you can collect fractions, test for 'activity' and keep the fractions that are most pure.
Again, this can be very pricey equipment&solvents.



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Re: extraction [Re: Suntzu]
    #306950 -

what kind of alchohol are we talking here; isopropyl, ethyl....? If alchohol works for extraction, all you would need to do is blend the solution of mycelia together, separate using an air suction with a filter disk, and put the highly volatile liquid solution in a dish with high surface area. This will leave psilocin and psilocybin, and depending on how much you use, and the purity of the alchohol an impure residue of what was in the alchohol. Further, if you could find what impurity exists after the alchohol evaporates, you may have access to a chemical that is pure, dissolves the impurity, and does not dissolve the psilocybin. Doing another separation with a suction and filter disk will further purify your results. Another thing to ask though, if it is true that more psilocybing exists in the fruit stage, why not do the extraction with mushrooms instead of mycelium?



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Re: extraction [Re: darkangel932]
    #307386 -

suntzu: i think that column purification is beyond my means, defining the fraction that it is in by isoelectric point or ph or some other gradient could be tedious and i seriously doubt that there are specific commercial reagents/antibodies that would bind psilocybin and could then later be released. darkangel: i'm sure that the fruiting bodies have higher content, but they are also more time consuming/tedious/difficult to produce. i think that a toddler could grow mycelium. innoculate media, shake, wait, shake, etc...

c12h16n24ohdmt

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Re: extraction [Re: gray1]
    #307539 -

I don't think a toddler could or should be doing anything related to shrooms !!!!!!!! What exactly are you doing at this bulletin board. You have a brain, you answer all your own questions, and your choice of questions are highly focused. Market availability, Genetic engineering, Extraction into a pure form!!!!!! Just grow shrooms and eat them. Lets not Turn a beautiful natural thing into Cocaine. If people just chewed Coca leaf, we wouldn't have a Cocaine problem. Are you a Federal agent, or just a mad scientist? WHO ARE YOU??????


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Re: extraction [Re: ]
    #307659 -

you are right on two accounts, i ask specific questions and i tend to answer them myself, at least to an extent.
i believe that the advanced technique board is the appropriate place to ask specific questions, if i needed to ask what casing was i would do it on the reg. cultivation board. i also tend to ansswer them myself to an extent as i correct or respond to answers/responses i have received thatare either not accurate or not to the level of info i'm requesting. my questions are obviously aimed at those who have great experience with all aspects of cultivation, and i am gracious of those who have shared their experience with me and helped to direct my research/though process.
as for not turning mushrooms into cocaine, i whole heartedly agree. i have no intent to produce and/or distribute any quantity of hallucenogenic compound, therefore i'm not concerned with commercializing the drug. if i am interested in extraction procedures for my own research, that is my perogative, and this is the appropriate place to ask for other members to share their related experience.
furthermore, i am pleased that these boards exist to share knowledge of the powerful molecules of psilocybin and psilocin and am happy that people are learning to cultivate for themselves and not be brought into the street market where they run the risk of incarceration, being ripped off, and being poisoned by inappropriate product.
grow your own cannabis, grow your own fungus, brew your own beer, make your own bread. utilize the natural power of this earth to fuel your body and your mind, so that you can enjoy life to the fullest extent possible, physically, mentally, and spiritually.

for the record:
i am not a gov't employee in any shape or form.
i have no intent to produce or distribute any hallucenogenic compound in any quantity.
i have no intent to cultivate hallucenogenic mushrooms or cannabis
any reference to research that i make is merely a reference to the imaginary research that takes place in my head

sneezing, the 2nd best dopamine rush

c12h16n24ohdmt

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Re: extraction [Re: gray1]
    #307692 -

Thank you for the disclaimer!


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Re: extraction [Re: gray1]
    #307696 -

Can you give us some idea of what is going on in your head? If you can't be succinct with your questions how can we definite with our answers? Just what exactly what kind of tools and credentials are you working with?


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Re: extraction [Re: ]
    #307697 -

Teonan-Extraction into a pure form!!!!!!
psilocybin has been synthesized already

but being able to extract the chems would be a good way to test for purity/potency
heard it works with any alchohol
possibly because it is polar? extracts into organic solvents-water
that's why you can make tea, alcohol concoctions

read up on how tests have been done to determine potency and you will awnser you question...

---333---


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Re: extraction [Re: darkangel932]
    #307727 -

i've just read over all of my posts, and as far as i can tell, the questions/comments in each have been straight forward. however, to reiterate,
i'm interested in studying the genetic aspects of psilocin/psilocybin biosynthesis and the required non-genetic factors that are involved, such as co-enzymes, precursors, nutrients, etc...
i have experience, and access to the materials required, in the fields of cell culture, molecular & cell biology, microbiology and virology. except for the question about the current street market, (whcich i regret psoting because it has raised questions about my relation to the gov't and the responses seem to portray me as wishing to produce and sell mushrooms and or encouragte others to do so, while i was simply pondering the current state of affairs and do not suggest that anyone violate the us gov't drug laws, as reprehensible as they may be, or that i wished to produce and or sell psilocin/psilocybin containing mushrooms myself), all of my posts have been inquiries that are directly related to my own personal research interest.

is that succinct enough?

c12h16n24ohdmt

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Re: extraction [Re: gray1]
    #308006 -

I'm not sure if your talking about solvent extraction or gene splicing cultures of bacteria to produce psilocybin.

If you mean the solvent extraction then the end result is sappy or cristilized. I'm not sure if you can sniff it but it would probally work.

If you mean gene minipulation to produce psilocybin then you probally wont be able to do that as of right now. The gene for the production of psilocybin has not been isolated as of yet. But in the future that could be very possible.
In order to know what co-enzymes and restriction enzymes you need, you have to know where the coding is on the gene. It takes some expensive equipment to get into that though.

Back in the 60's psilocybin became popular in vile form. Pure Psilocybin extract. A few drops and you were blazin.

Will biotech take over the natural world?


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CSC

Life's a garden, Dig it!
~Joe Dirt

Off Topic Website

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Re: extraction [Re: gray1]
    #308011 -

Yes. I am very much an on and off person at this forum. I am not quite sure of what kind of people are on this forum. What I mean by what kind of people is their level of education. It seems to me that most people on this forum have simple cultivation skills. Not skils in or experience with topics in research or biochemical metabolism. That doesn't mean that nobody on this site has experience, infact some members seem to have a great deal of it. Would you agree that in doing research, it is good to have a great deal of collaberators. This isn't specific to you Gray, but maybe I should be the one to say, who on this site really has the interest to look at mushroom genetics, enough to start a collaberation of intensive biochemical, etc. research ideas?


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Re: extraction [Re: darkangel932]
    #308343 -

darkangel obviously, this topic is of interest to at least several people, judging from the responses that i have gotten, and again, i will say that this is the appropriate place so discuss such a topic. this is the advanced board. of course not everyone that posts/reads these messages is advanced and experienced, and i make no claim to be so myself, but theoretically, there may be people out there who do have some insight and or relative information to share, and it is these people that i am addressing. who are you to judge or criticize what people are active on this forum and what types of questions can be asked. furthermore, your reply was contradictory, direct quote: "Not skils in or experience with topics in research or biochemical metabolism.That doesn't mean that nobody on this site has experience, infact some members seem to have a great deal of it" 2nd direct quote: "who on this site really has the interest to look at mushroom genetics, enough to start a collaberation of intensive biochemical, etc. research ideas?" i really don't understand what you are getting at here. i have posted several questions related to my interests to these boards. if you are not interested in the topics, don't respond to them. simple as that. there is no need to question and criticize my legitimacy or my research interests. why are you continually doing this? it aggravates me to use this space for discussions not directly related to science, however, i have done so in attempt to defend and explain myself. i feel that i have effectively done this, and so i will no longer respond to replies that are not of a scientific nature. if you have something interesting to say about the scientific aspects of my inquiries, i would be pleased to ponder, however, please do not continue to post irellevant discussion about the nature of my inquiries.

c12h16n24ohdmt

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Re: extraction [Re: gray1]
    #308465 -

Lets just make this clear. To do the kind of research you want to do, you need a Schedule One licensce. To find any research on it, the researchers would have had to have a Schedule one permit. If you had this, you would be in violation of that license posting here. As far as access to the equipment needed to do this kind of research, you would have to have access to a multitude of highly specialized labs. Biochem labs, Microbiology labs, etc.. All costing huge amounts of cash, and all having different requirements, that could not be met with one lab. If your inquiries are purely for mind walking, then it doesn't matter. Pure Psilocybin was already extracted, and synthesized. Research it. As far as Secondary metabolite production goes, it has been studied and you can research it. You are not gonna find that kind of information here. This is a cultivation board. There are a few people here with the kind of background needed to aquire the research, and possible attempt these theories. But no schedule one licenses. You sound like you are pretty educated and you should know that in order to get that research, you are gonna have to look in many different universities, many journals, many countries and all of them are not going to be interlinked. You will have to make the connections yourself. I.E, looking in biochem journals for extraction techniques, looking in fungal phisiology journals for secondary metabolite production, looking in genetics journals, plant physiology journals. Then you have to be able to find all the right connections, put them together in a workable hypothesis. Submit to the FDA, DEA, countless other federal agencies all doing there best to deny. Of course you have to get approval by the department chair, and dean of your University first. Good Luck, man.
On a happier note, yes alot of us are interested in this kind of information and experimentation, and this is one of the places to post. I'm just a realist, and that realization is that none of us are gonna get that License. I have been busted for possesion of a controlled substance, I know I can never, never, never get that License!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by Teonan on 05/03/01 01:58 PM.


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Re: extraction [Re: ]
    #308481 -

teonan, thanks for the response. as you put it, this is just and exercise in mind walking, however if i were ever to attempt any physical action other than reading and note-taking it would certainly be a clandestine operation, no class 1 liscense, no dean approval(i'm not at a university anyway, etc...) and i doubt that i would mention it here, especially after the fiasco that this post has become.
additionally, even with the information required to create and new organism with the capability to produce psilocybin/psilocin, i'm not sure that i would purely on an ethical basis, as i'm sure you realize, the issues involving genetic engineering are complex, and the ecosystem in which the organism is a part of must be examined carefully to evaluate the impact that a newly created organism may have on the environment, although, in this case it would most likely be bacteria living in a culture flask and never be introduced or shared.
i am enamored with the way in which nature has evolved to create a multitude of organisms that are incredibly diverse, but all sharing one primal characterisitc: the drive to perpetuate. afterall, that's what life is, an attempt to perpetuate genes. it is amazing that organisms have been sufccessful in doing this in so many different ways.
i am interested in the entire life cycle of fungi, and don't have any desire to discount the importance of the organism by assuming it is only useful for it's two major alkaloids and devising schemes to bypass natural life to produce these compounds. i am a biochemist and molecular geneticist though, and i am interested in the theoretical possibilities that biotechnology has to offer society.
in terms of conceptual starting material, i will start with the precursor tryptophan, and the modification processes involved in turning this into psilocybin/psilocin. without doing much research, it seems that the conversions are simple, and that the human body does have the enzymes and cofactors necessary. why then doesn't the human body produce psilocybin. apparently the biosynthetic pathway is complex and i eagerly anticipate discovering the differences and eventually evaluating: how do fungi create psilocybin and psilocin. and even more interestingly why do they? it must be for an evolutionary advantage, as life is fundamentally about gene perpetuation...

c12h16n24ohdmt

Edited by gray1 on 05/03/01 02:18 PM.


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Re: extraction [Re: gray1]
    #309384 -

I wish more people in this world, particularly scientists, had your sense!! To many organisms and chemicals have been released into the environment without due testing. Sorry if my responses have been negative, in any way.


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Re: extraction [Re: gray1]
    #309729 -

It was misinterpretation, I was asking "who on this site is interested in starting a research collaberation/discussion for the my interest in the topic of your post. I was hoping more people would respond to your questions so me and other people in interest of this topic could read a post and learn from anothers experience. You, Teonan, among others seem experienced, and I enjoy the enlightenment of the knowledge I have read from everyone on this and other posts.

Keep the good vibes

Edited by darkangel932 on 05/05/01 03:03 AM.


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