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Psilocybe allenii origin
    #29574192 -

Hello. I am curious about thoughts and theories of the origin of psilocybe allenii. I know these are mostly if not totally found in man- made wood chip beds. I wonder if they evolved very recently (since we invented wood chippers) or were present on natural or manmade habitats in the past (wood chips and sawdust from wood working). Or weather created accumulation of wood. I know beavers were much more widespread in the past than they are today and they are known to create wood chip piles in wet areas with good trees like cotton wood, willow, alder etc. Squirrels also sometimes make piles of pine cone scales. I was also wondering if there is any record of historical indigenous usage of psilocybe in the pacific northwest. Thanks

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Re: Psilocybe allenii origin [Re: Pokepoler]
    #29575073 -

don't know the answered to all of your questions but I can say without a doubt there is evidence of indigenous psilocybe use in the pnw. VERIFIED RECORD, I cant say. but there's a whole lot of evidence alright lol


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REPENT

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Re: Psilocybe allenii origin [Re: jbgtaa] * 2
    #29575537 -

AFAIK, Ps allenii is, with Ps cyanescens and azurescens, a species that recently split off from Ps subaeruginosa. The Australasian species spread around the world and new populations are (in the process of) becoming new species. The entire cluster is very closely related.

Subaers are found in Australia etc on naturally occurring clusters of branches / litter etc. Like ovoids occur in places where rivers deposit a lot of woody material. Their (subaers) offspring in exodus likes these habitats too. Think of azurescens, using the debris of the high tide mark that gets overblown by sand. And other stuff that disappears under the sand as dunes move.
As humans create these circumstances artificially (mulch beds, woodchip trails, etc) we have hugely favored the subaers and their relatives. Habitat niches that occur on a small scale in nature are mimicked on a huge scale in parks and gardens. I mean, try to find Ps cyan in nature... I have found it only once. But every arboretum / Botanical Garden seems to have some.


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Species grown 2025-26
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29367720#29367720

Collection of trip reports
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29242884#29242884

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Re: Psilocybe allenii origin [Re: Churpee Choozle]
    #29576052 -

I've found pan cyans and silocybe cyanescens n azurescens and baocistis and truffles and black truffles AND a blue shantrelle back when I was in oregon over a 12 year span:) just wanted to brag lol. I wish I knew how to grow mushrooms back when I found the shantrelle and black truffle.. evin though I'd of prob fucked it up anyways lol don't think I'm ready for truffle seeding or shantrelle eather since they have a symbiotic relationship with the trees in a way I have no practical experience or knowledge of :stoned: woulda been a great pipe dream though 😂 baocistis is definitely the rarest mushroom find for me I only ever found 2 growing sidebyside on a muss spot on the edge of a riverbed with rocks n soil mixed n moss on top lol I've specifically tried to hunt for baocistis literally every year since I knew they existed and have yet to find any anywhere I go since. And I checked where I found them at first year fyi n they never grew back. No I didn't pick them I left them alone when I found xd.


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An enigma some caerulescens n a mono 😎

Edited by bloodssonnew (05/13/26 11:27 PM)

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Re: Psilocybe allenii origin [Re: bloodssonnew]
    #29580794 -

I don't think alot of amateurs cultivate gourmet truffles indoors, I'm sure big companies do it? I know a guy who planted some trees and did some sort of inoculation and showed them to one of his younger hogs, don't think he's sent the hog back yet but who knows. its a pretty complicated process


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Re: Psilocybe allenii origin [Re: jbgtaa]
    #29580798 -

The native Cyanescense, Azure and Allenii are rare in their natural habitat. They are often only found in abundance in man disturbed wooded areas. To find large patches in the wild bush is rare. Allenii im sure has been around as long as them but more recently discovered


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"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"

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Re: Psilocybe allenii origin [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #29581396 -

Before it became allenii it was being called cyanofriscosa right?

I think a part of all this is a function of our understanding of each species as the taxonomy evolves.


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Re: Psilocybe allenii origin [Re: Pokepoler]
    #29598019 -

My understanding is that the time-frame they may have evolved and divergence as unique is a very large/long expanse, across geological time.  Or maybe that’s as near as we would be able to discover at this point/any point.  From that 2024 Bradshaw PNAS paper, Psilocybe genus-level molecular-clock estimate: Psilocybe stem lineage about 67 Million Years Ago and diversification about 56 Million Years Ago. 

Borovička, J., Rockefeller, A., & Werner, P. G. (2012). “Psilocybe allenii — a new bluing species from the Pacific Coast, USA.” Czech Mycology, 64(2), 181–195.

Open-access article PDF: https://czechmycology.org/_cmo/CM64207.pdf
DOI: https://doi.org/10.33585/cmy.64207

It describes P. allenii as a new Pacific Coast wood-rotting bluing species, close to P. cyanescens by ITS phylogeny, but distinguishable by ITS sequence and pileus morphology. 

Genus: Psilocybe
Major modern clade: Clade C
Species complex: P. cyanescens / wood-loving temperate bluing complex
Nearest named relatives: P. cyanescens, P. azurescens, and broader subaeruginosa/weraroa allies depending on sampling.

Bradshaw et al. (2024), PNAS, “Phylogenomics of the psychoactive mushroom genus Psilocybe and evolution of the psilocybin biosynthetic gene cluster.”

URL: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2311245121
Free PMC: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10801892/

This is the source for the genus-level molecular-clock estimate: Psilocybe stem lineage about 67 Mya and diversification about 56 Mya.

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Re: Psilocybe allenii origin [Re: jbgtaa] * 1
    #29612074 -

Pokepoler said:
Hello. I am curious about thoughts and theories of the origin of psilocybe allenii. I know these are mostly if not totally found in man- made wood chip beds. I wonder if they evolved very recently (since we invented wood chippers) or were present on natural or manmade habitats in the past (wood chips and sawdust from wood working). Or weather created accumulation of wood. I know beavers were much more widespread in the past than they are today and they are known to create wood chip piles in wet areas with good trees like cotton wood, willow, alder etc. Squirrels also sometimes make piles of pine cone scales. I was also wondering if there is any record of historical indigenous usage of psilocybe in the pacific northwest. Thanks



The title of this paper should answer most of your questions 😎

Wood-loving magic mushrooms from Australia are saprotrophic invaders in the Northern Hemisphere

"The morphological diversity of P. subaeruginosa in Australia encompasses phenotypes of taxa described in the Northern Hemisphere. Psilocybe allenii and P. cyanescens behave as invasive taxa in the Northern Hemisphere"...."un-recorded before the 1900s (Dennis & Wakefield 1946, Borovička et al. 2012), and having low genetic diversity among populations (Gießler 2018)."


jbgtaa said:
...I can say without a doubt there is evidence of indigenous psilocybe use in the pnw. VERIFIED RECORD, I cant say. but there's a whole lot of evidence alright lol



Dang...No evidence of indigenous psilocybe use in the pnw 😔


From what I gather... Allenii/Cyans/Azurescens are simply one of the many shapes & sizes of P. Subaeruginosa from Australia 🤷

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Re: Psilocybe allenii origin [Re: jbgtaa]
    #29613878 -

jbgtaa said:
I don't think alot of amateurs cultivate gourmet truffles indoors, I'm sure big companies do it? I know a guy who planted some trees and did some sort of inoculation and showed them to one of his younger hogs, don't think he's sent the hog back yet but who knows. its a pretty complicated process


Truffles have never been cultivated indoors in history, as far as I know. And some think it's not possible. The process requires inoculating young trees with truffle spores and growing them out. First the inoculated plants are grown in a greenhouse, then planted in an orchard. I think the earliest it's ever been done in history is after 2-3 years, and this is after a year or so being raised in a greenhouse. It's not unusual for it to take 10-12 years.

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Re: Psilocybe allenii origin [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #29619790 -

Here in Oregon, truffles often are commercially produced by inoculating hazelnut groves. I'm sure it could be done inside using a bonsai style set up. Sounds like a fun, worthwhile project. Multiple truffle crops would be :rockon::popcorn:

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Re: Psilocybe allenii origin [Re: djbabyjesus] * 1
    #29619808 -

djbabyjesus said:
Here in Oregon, truffles often are commercially produced by inoculating hazelnut groves. I'm sure it could be done inside using a bonsai style set up. Sounds like a fun, worthwhile project. Multiple truffle crops would be :rockon::popcorn:


I am doing that right now on a smaller scale, you can see my other thread. I opted for even smaller than that (just growing within one jar) to maximize the speed at which it could fruit since it is a notoriously slow colonizer.

A greenhouse project or just one indoor pot I still think would take over a year at the least, but it would be fun.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Advanced Mycology
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