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Re: psilOcybe actives == psilohuasca already [Re: 4HO-DMT] * 1
    #29531019 -

4HO-DMT said:
Here’s a Link to the paper. It was just published.





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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: psilOcybe actives == psilohuasca already [Re: redgreenvines] * 2
    #29531198 -

It’s an interesting study, and the part which interests me the most was the mention of how mice seem to benefit more from whole mushroom extracts versus pure psilocin. This interesting part was nothing to do with this study though :lol:

The rest was pretty interesting too, but I was disappointed that they completely ignored the natural concentrations of these minor alkaloids in mushrooms and the required dose for a threshold effect in people.

Basically what they did is analyse what a computer thinks would happen if someone ingested these compounds. I find these types of studies kinda funny because they don’t actually test anything.

So.. this is a paper summarising other people’s work on alkaloid profiles of mushrooms and the pharmacokinetics of minor constituent alkaloids and ignores concentrations while asserting that this highlights the importance of the entourage effect…

To me they really haven’t highlighted the importance of the entourage effect because they failed to take into account the concentration of these alkaloids.

But it’s interesting.


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"God is an intelligible sphere, whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

Llamando la Mareacion

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Re: psilOcybe actives == psilohuasca already [Re: Bardy] * 1
    #29531363 -

I agree Bardy. I read the paper last night after I posted the link. I was disappointed that they didn’t report the dosage of each compound. I mean c’mon that is a crucial bit of information they need to support their conclusion.

:begone:

I do wonder about the ratios of beta carbolines in other species like semperviva or zapotecorum though.

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Re: psilOcybe actives == psilohuasca already [Re: CaptainTrips420] * 2
    #29531422 -

CaptainTrips420 said:
I swear I thought I red something about red meat and certain foods interacting with ayahuasca vine and thought that was because of THH :shrug: im an idiot who been high for several weeks only sober when I wake up I should put a disclaimer I don't know factual stuff just read some stuff about how shamans eat fish and chicken only for meat because it interacts somehow.

I read better information just now I guess they do that because it feels better but isn't really dangerous compared to most medications.



Yeah people think they have to avoid certain foods or do certain diets when they consume Aya but mainly it's just a misunderstanding. MAOI's require Tyramine restrictions generally, but that's only for pharmaceutical irreversible and non-selective MAOI's which irreversibly inhibit both MAO-A and MAO-B and they disable the MAO enzymes until they can regenerate themselves which takes a couple or so weeks and so consuming irreversible MAOI's can allow Tyramine to build up and cause issues hence why they abstain from Tyramine-containing foods. However the Harmalas are reversible and selective MAO-A inhibitors (RIMA's) which only transiently/temporarily inhibits MAO-A (gut inhibition only lasts about an hour and a half to two hours, after that gut MAO-A goes back to normal and allows for Tyramine metabolism) while leaving MAO-B uninhibited so any Tyramine consumed can be metabolized by MAO-B while MAO-A is inhibited or one can simply not eat for a couple hours, plus Tyramine can compete for MAO-A and can even displace reversible MAO-A inhibition if there's too much for MAO-B to handle. So Tyramine isn't a concern with Harmalas, it is a concern with pharmaceutical irreversible MAOI's like Nardil for example.

Another point to make is that there's a practice called a "master plant dieta" in which one restricts most foods and "diets" a specific plant, could be any plant really, but usually it's a medicinal plant that is consumed for an ailment, often prescribed by the shaman after Ayahuasca, Ayahuasca being a diagnostic tool to determine what's going on in the patient and then after the Aya the shaman will prescribe the remedy plant for the patients' issue, and during that remedy plant prescription they restrict certain foods, sex, sugar, salt, and other things and then diet the remedy plant in an effort to cure/treat their issue. And the master plant dieta is often applied to Ayahuasca itself as well, even though it's not necessary, the master plant dieta is it's own practice completely outside of Ayahuasca but can be applied to any plant medicine including Aya. And so people assume that the master plant dieta and the MAOI diet thing are the same thing even though they're completely different, and neither diet is necessary for working with/consuming Ayahuasca/Harmalas.


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Re: psilOcybe actives == psilohuasca already [Re: CaptainTrips420]
    #29532114 -

CaptainTrips420 said:
I swear I thought I red something about red meat and certain foods interacting with ayahuasca vine



Sabnock said:
MAOI's require Tyramine restrictions generally, but that's only for pharmaceutical irreversible and non-selective MAOI's which irreversibly inhibit both MAO-A and MAO-B and they disable the MAO enzymes until they can regenerate themselves which takes a couple or so weeks and so consuming irreversible MAOI's can allow Tyramine to build up and cause issues hence why they abstain from Tyramine-containing foods.



Sabnock said:
So Tyramine isn't a concern with Harmalas, it is a concern with pharmaceutical irreversible MAOI's like Nardil for example.



"Fresh and frozen meat and meat products are safe, but if they are not fresh, i.e. if they have been subject to decomposition by micro-organisms, then they could be risky. Fresh liver has no tyramine [114], but if stored badly or past its 'use by' date when purchased, and then kept in a domestic fridge that is not cold enough, may become risky [115, 116]." Gillman, Ken, M.D. 2020. Monoamine oxidase inhibitors: A review concerning dietary tyramine and drug interactions. PsychoTropical Commentaries, 1:1–71 Tyramine in Foods and Beverages § Meat and fish products, page 18
https://psychotropical.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/9.2-MAOI_diet_drug_interactions_2020_current_v.pdf

It's very rare to have a hypertensive crisis while on MAOIs, but the danger is there and you can get one when you least expect it. Took me two years to find out how it felt like. I ate spoiled meat and it gave me a splitting headache, felt like my head was about to explode. Before that incident i had been eating everything and paid the diet no concern at all.

I still don't care about the diet, but gourmet cheese and spoiled food should be avoided at all costs.


ChopSuey, 2014-09-22, Re: MAOI "diet" by psychiatrists - a joke?


The MAOI Safety Thread

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Re: psilOcybe actives == psilohuasca already [Re: s240779]
    #29534789 -

s240779 said:
In one person tetrahydroharmine was similarly hallucinogenic when given in three times the dose of harmaline.

β-carbolines, psychoactive compounds in the mammalian body. Airaksinen MM, Kari I. 1981. Part II: Effects. Med Biol, 59(4):190-211. Studies on the hallucinogenic and other CNS effects



Phyllodium pulchellum contains DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, tryptamine, and two chemicals that are related to tetrahydroharmine:

N-methyltetrahydrocarboline

7-methoxy-N-methyltetrahydrocarboline


… And N-methyl-3-indoylmethanamine.

Effect of Alkaloids Isolated from Phyllodium pulchellum on Monoamine Levels and Monoamine Oxidase Activity in Rat Brain. Cai, L., Wang, C., Huo, X. K., Dong, P. P., Zhang, B. J., Zhang, H. L., Huang, S. S., Zhang, B., Yu, S. M., Zhong, M., Ma, X. C. 2016. Evid Based Complement Alternat Med, 2016, 6826175. 10.1155/2016/6826175


Can someone re-post this in DMT-Nexus's Scientific Papers and Journal Articles forum?

https://forum.dmt-nexus.me/forums/harmalas.90/

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