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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: tree frog]
    #29483441 -

What gear are you using? I have a horrible habit of getting choice gear for my extremely varied hobbies, all of which I am intermediate at (at best). Electronics repair, 3d printing, woodworking :cookiemonster:


--------------------
My posts are long winded and dense.
Supplemented coir experiments< Currently ongoing spring 2026.

~Agar~ 1000mL water = 1000g water. use ~1% agar...1% of 1000g is 10g.  For cubes, use between 1-2% nutes (10-20g). For pans use 0.5% nutes (5g).

Everything I have typed is purely fiction, and is purely for personal amusement.
All images I've posted are not mine and I am simply posting interesting things I found on the Google.

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: Kunta Kente]
    #29483563 -

I bought an American Optical one-ten used off of eBay and fixed it up.  It's a metal beast and will outlive me if taken care of.



Then I have a phone mount for photos, and a pixel 7a on the way partially because I'm unhappy with my camera phone. But I'm also due for a new one and the pixels I can put graphene OS on when Google quits updating it.

Outside of that, good cover slips are important.  The slides can be cheap but some of the cheap cover slips really suck.  I use AmScope slips since they are reasonable.  And then a slide with micrometer measurements for measuring spores.  Kimtech lens paper for dust etc.

And 10% potassium hydroxide solution for mounting.

Aside from the phone I've probably spent about $500 on everything.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (02/13/26 06:16 PM)

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: tree frog]
    #29483896 -

tree frog said:
I bought an American Optical one-ten used off of eBay and fixed it up.  It's a metal beast and will outlive me if taken care of.



Then I have a phone mount for photos, and a pixel 7a on the way partially because I'm unhappy with my camera phone. But I'm also due for a new one and the pixels I can put graphene OS on when Google quits updating it.

Outside of that, good cover slips are important.  The slides can be cheap but some of the cheap cover slips really suck.  I use AmScope slips since they are reasonable.  And then a slide with micrometer measurements for measuring spores.  Kimtech lens paper for dust etc.

And 10% potassium hydroxide solution for mounting.

Aside from the phone I've probably spent about $500 on everything.



very cool. I realize this might be an insane hurdle but are you at some point going to attempt single spore or monokaryon mating events? No clue on your background for such complexity and precision. I definitely don't have that precision. My prior lab was a brain related with staining (purposely somewhat vague).


--------------------
My posts are long winded and dense.
Supplemented coir experiments< Currently ongoing spring 2026.

~Agar~ 1000mL water = 1000g water. use ~1% agar...1% of 1000g is 10g.  For cubes, use between 1-2% nutes (10-20g). For pans use 0.5% nutes (5g).

Everything I have typed is purely fiction, and is purely for personal amusement.
All images I've posted are not mine and I am simply posting interesting things I found on the Google.

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: Kunta Kente] * 2
    #29484057 -

A friend gifted me some monos and I've crossed a few cyans.  Stabilizing them before I share genetics.

But it's not hard to snag monos using the method my friend used.  I believe I have one so far and I wasn't trying to hard.

I'm going to do a write up on agar and isolation likely this week.  But with a scope to verify monos, breeding is something I think anyone can do easily (at least with the four spored species, the two spored ones so far have been much more difficult, since they germinate as dikaryons).

Anyway, this disorganized mess is a bvi mono.  The arrow points to an unclamped septa.



Same mono backcrossed with a wild bvi dikaryon.  Growth is more organized and the arrows point toward the clamps.



--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: tree frog]
    #29496830 -

Following you!

You may already have all of this:

https://www.researchgate.net/search/publication?q=Panaeolus



The above photograph is not only mesmerizing, it deserves far more inquiry. Some species may not fruit properly without living and dead grass. It also adds an aesthetic depth that otherwise would not exist.

Cheers!

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: Myco-A-E]
    #29496999 -

I've read a number of these but will bookmark it for those I haven't, thanks!

And yeah, chlorocystis pins much better with grass and beneficial bacteria.  I'm trying a run without again right now to see if different conditions will give me better pinsets.  But I've grown it probably eight times now, even split between grass and no grass.  Grass with azospirrilum on the seed, has always pinned better.  (Best grow below).



Without grass or bacteria.



Likewise SAO2 likes grass and sometimes will overlay if I don't add it.  But this seems more culture specific and sometimes it pins well without.

Pinned well without.




This culture colonized the casing and stalled, so was given more casing and my grass treatment.



I will add some cultivation observations at some point too.  Once I get observation photos for cambos and cyans added I will probably go back and do that.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #29497023 -

At the slight risk of sounding zealous, you might be onto something that is worthy of formal publication in an international journal well beyond the viewership of this site. Mycosphere might be one option for consideration.

If there's any literature you may need in the meantime that isn't blatantly available, I may be able to help you on occasion.

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: Myco-A-E] * 1
    #29497048 -

I appreciate that, I need to get my chlorocystis resequenced.  I sent the lab a couple of cyans at the same time, and I believe there may have been a mix up, because it came back two base pairs from cyans and six from chloro.

But the microscopy and macroscopic features matches chloro, and it behaves very different than cyans (speed, mycelium characteristics, fruiting preferences, etc.)

You are also the third person that's suggested I write something in the last month so...

This is the mycelium morphology of my chloro on 0.5%.  Heavy chords very early.  No blue blobs ever.




And a typical cyan




Often blobs after full colonization


Structurally the blobs I believe are sclerotia.  Under the scope they're an aggregate of hyphae.  Kind of hard to observe because they're very compact.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (02/26/26 07:38 PM)

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: tree frog] * 1
    #29497070 -

Freakin love the pans growing in grass. I’ve never even grown before but I’ve often had the dream of making a terrarium ecosystem with an active mushroom which fruits inside. This looks like a step in that direction which I love.

I made a terrarium a year or so ago and it has lots of mycelium in it (not active, unknown) but I haven’t managed to get it to fruit yet… anyway, unrelated, just chit chat.

Again, love your work


--------------------
"God is an intelligible sphere, whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

Llamando la Mareacion

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: Bardy] * 1
    #29497099 -

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29142198

This thread didn't really take off but a few other folks contributed, and there are some terrariums too.

I haven't updated that in a while, but it was a retrospective after about a year of playing with grass and bacteria.  Written at 3:00 in the morning while pretty stoned so it's kind of fun :smile:

And thanks for the words of support and encouragement to you both :smile:


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: Myco-A-E]
    #29497812 -

Myco this is not a harp on you.

But no amount of money would ever convince me to publish anything, not that I have anything worth publishing, but some things are just better left online for the good of all. Afterall, education needs to be readily accessible at all times. When people start trying to make everything official in paid journals that are locked behind paid access, it takes away from the quality and quantity of research. By TF posting progress here it inspires others to also make discoveries and make further advances in the field. True science is always open for everyone. Sometimes I do read scientific journals but I can't tell you how many "official" studies had a ton of bias incorporated that made the study practically useless. And some of the realest of people would never read a scientific journal, because they aren't the type to read scientific journals.

I get what you're saying, but there is nothing wrong or inadequate by not partaking in some type of official "publication". I think TF is making good strides here and I am appreciative of her contributions. This is good karma. You can't put a price on karma.

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: tultedspoon] * 2
    #29497862 -

tultedspoon said:
Myco this is not a harp on you.

But no amount of money would ever convince me to publish anything, not that I have anything worth publishing, but some things are just better left online for the good of all. Afterall, education needs to be readily accessible at all times. When people start trying to make everything official in paid journals that are locked behind paid access, it takes away from the quality and quantity of research. By TF posting progress here it inspires others to also make discoveries and make further advances in the field. True science is always open for everyone. Sometimes I do read scientific journals but I can't tell you how many "official" studies had a ton of bias incorporated that made the study practically useless. And some of the realest of people would never read a scientific journal, because they aren't the type to read scientific journals.

I get what you're saying, but there is nothing wrong or inadequate by not partaking in some type of official "publication". I think TF is making good strides here and I am appreciative of her contributions. This is good karma. You can't put a price on karma.



Well, believe it or not, I fully appreciate and lend support to your statement. The so-called official academics and their pay-to-play journal/book approaches have done far more damage than good. However, more people have begun realizing the value of combining formal publication with freely providing these works to the public.

If you go to https://www.researchgate.net now, you will find a vast amount of free papers and images. This site appears to be leading the way with a new approach that is founded on near-universal access without cost. It is up to the other publishers, authors, schools, etc. to mature with this same approach. They can all publish non-classified data on Research Gate if they truly want to.


Regarding works informally published on casual sites such as the Shroomery, I would suggest that people be welcome to do this as they deem appropriate. However, that again limits the audience. Some nations will not allow access to this site. Certainly, there are many people who will choose not to visit this site for obvious reasons. So - if someone makes a discovery such as tree frog has, it is better from my perspective that the work eventually becomes a part of scientific canon.

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: Myco-A-E] * 2
    #29498308 -

tultedspoon said:
I get what you're saying, but there is nothing wrong or inadequate by not partaking in some type of official "publication". I think TF is making good strides here and I am appreciative of her contributions. This is good karma. You can't put a price on karma.


Mycosphere is an open access journal fam.  And I didn't take it to mean that what I was currently doing was wrong or inadequate either.

Honestly it was validating and I appreciate the encouragement to share my work with larger audiences.  And Myco-A-E is the third person to tell me this in a month, so maybe my karma is moving in this direction.

Plus, that doesn't mean that I will stop posting here.  Really I imagine it would be the opposite, because if I was intending to publish something in a journal, I would likely have this community peer review it for me first.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (02/26/26 08:37 AM)

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: Myco-A-E]
    #29498842 -

@ myco

Yeah researchgate has been around. Some of the biased studies that I was talking about are on there. I just get defensive when people try to recruit talent from a very fundamental site and try to steer them elsewhere. Reminds me of that thread where someone was asking about if TC's would consider charging for virtual grow advice. Just no, this is the internet. Some things are not done for money.

There are other academic and mycology sites which restrict people from accessing them as well. They don't work for all people just because you think they are free and the links work for you. This is part censorship. I won't go into detail more, you may need time to figure this out for yourself, but sometimes not every bit of research needs a full academic paper officially formatted to it. Sometimes it's nice to just see the raw discoveries without all the fluff of a paper. It gives more time for more research.

@ TF don't let me influence you one way or another, do what feels right. Personally I don't stray from shroomery for mycology. The only links I click are ones that stay on shroomery.

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: tultedspoon] * 2
    #29498880 -

There are MOUNTAINS of hot garbage piled up in this forum. Regardless of where you go for information, it's always a case of reader beware and investigate your sources. Publishing in a peer-reviewed journal doesn't make that entire journal and scientific discipline liable for any potential inaccuracy or bias any more than I'm on the hook for someone else dispensing horrible advice in "quick questions."

Oh, and just for the record, people don't get paid for publishing in scientific journals. In fact, it's usually the exact opposite.

But anyway. Shroomery is essentially the closest we can get to a trade publication or peer-reviewed journal  of psychoactive myco-culture. At the end of the day, the mycological literature serves a completely different and complementary function. And we'll probably never know how much crossover there is, since most people here choose to stay anonymous for obvious reasons.


--------------------

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #29498907 -

If I needed to use my legal name I simply wouldn't publish.  There's photos in this thread that are published, and it's all credited to a pseudonym.

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of gates. And I don't view this forum as privileged.  It's my home. In the sense that I do more writing and research here than anywhere else.  And I value this community, and count many of its members as friends.

But at the end of the day I enjoy sharing my passion for mushrooms with other folks who are passionate about them.  And reaching an international audience with data on grass and bacteria could encourage other folks to look more deeply at interdependence in nature.

Because a lot of mushrooms seem to enjoy company.  Even if they're not specifically ectomycorrhizal.

Anyway, I would appreciate it if we don't make this thread about me publishing a paper or the merits/demerits of publication.

I appreciated the initial suggestion and encouragement, and I can make up my own mind about it.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (02/26/26 05:26 PM)

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #29498934 -

Excellent work, the microscopy and links.  The nuance between different species is hopeful for identificaiton.

Is cheilocystidia/ metuloid structure, and spore structure definitive ways to Identify species?

The details in the Gerhardt copelandia text suggest the micro structures are unique to each panaeolus species; especially the metuloid.  I’m going to duplicate the microscopy as i grow them out.

A lot of these pans look so closely related that they don’t seem like a separate species.

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: trippleblack]
    #29498940 -

Alan Rockefeller mentioned that even experienced mycologists are wrong about 50% of the time with microscopy.

Which is why I'm trying to document mycelium observations as well.

In my experience I can tell bisporus, IND01, SA02, chlorocystis, and cyans/cambos apart from the mycelium.  I don't have enough experience with cambos yet to know if I can tell them apart from cyans using this feature.

But I believe once I measure a few cambo spores and upload them that will be a distinct way to split them from cyans.  But I would like to observe multiple cambo specimens to be sure komodo island wasn't an outlier.

Likewise, I was able to determine that tea tree is likely the same species as the beach pan (SA02) based on how distinct the spores are.  That said I also used some other observations such as the mycelium and fruit bodies. Though the fruit bodies of tea tree express a lot less orange/brown.  They have similar structure.  They were also both found in South Africa near woody debris, so there's that too as a clue.

Tropicalis the metuloids are quite distinct.  Both Workman's specimen from India, and the holotype on iNaturalist have very thick walls.  So this is the feature I am looking for when trying to determine if anything going around other than workman's specimen is tropicalis.  So far none of them are.  But the holotype has not been sequenced yet.

Metuloids can also show some morphological differences depending on age and I imagine also environment.

Additionally, green metuloids are a defining feature of chlorocystis but green also shows up in bisporus and cyans here.  So we have to look at the whole organism, how many basidia. It's environmental preferences.  And mycelium and fruit body characteristics.

Ultimately sequencing is the fool proof method.

These are workman's keys.  And you can see he is hesitant to name some of these based on just microscopy.  And he came to a different conclusion than Alan on the RDU specimen.  Which Alan at one point believed was tropicalis due to its small spores.

https://sporeworks.com/gallery.php?g=subgenus-copelandia&id=1

And I will add that to the OP soon.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (02/26/26 06:13 PM)

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: tree frog]
    #29498989 -

Cool.  Was wondering what pan Indo was about, playing with those and Komodo now
indo

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Re: Panaeolus subg. bresadolomyces [Re: trippleblack]
    #29499004 -

It may be a different India pan than the one I fruited, as I know a specimen recently came back from there and I haven't heard much about it to be honest.

But if it's the same, it was slower to fruit but didn't like it as wet as bisporus or as hot as cyans (just a touch slower, mid to low 70s, and treat the pins like cyans).  Did you get an iNat number for yours?  If so you can track it through the post on it under the OP and if it's the same it's sequenced and is in gene bank as IND01.

Uploading some spore photos now for chlorocystis, komodo island, and two varieties of cyans (texas titan and a florida redspore)

Edit:  Chlorocystis is wild!


Occassional heart shaped spores (matches keys).  And look at just the variance in size and shape.


--------------------
And if I only could
I'd make a deal with God
And I'd get him to swap our places
I'd be running up that road
Be running up that hill
With no problems

Edited by tree frog (02/26/26 07:15 PM)

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