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The myth that ayahuasca has to contain DMT * 1
    #29173293 -

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The name ayahuasca is from Quechua, a South American Indian language: huasca means “vine” or “liana” and aya means “souls” or “dead people” or “spirits.” Thus “vine of the dead,” “vine of the souls,” or “vine of the spirits” would all be appropriate English translations. It is however slightly misleading as a name, since the vine Banisteriopsis caapi is only one of two essential ingredients in the hallucinogenic brew, the other one being the leafy plant Psychotria viridis, which contains the powerful psychoactive dimethyltryptamine (DMT). It is the DMT, derivatives of which are also present in various other natural hallucinogens, including the magic mushroom of Mexico, that provides visionary experiences and thus access to the realm of spirits and the souls of deceased ancestors.
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Ralph Metzner. Sacred Vine of Spirits: Ayahuasca. 1999, 2006. Park Street Press. ISBN: 9781594770531 Introduction, pg. 1

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Your Ralph Metzner quote is very ignorant and shows why he is a bad resource to learn from. There is only one required plant in Ayahuasca - many tribes never use viridis even if they add a DMT admixture so he is spreading misinformation that you are repeating. I recommend getting better more accurate resources for learning from.
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MapachoCura, 2024-02-18, reddit


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Ayahuasca is the Quechua word for a vine known to Western people by its most common Latin name, Banisteriopsis caapi, historically used by many indigenous Amazonian tribes for shamanism, sorcery, divination, and healing. For those who drink ayahuasca, the vine is often perceived as a plant spirit that engages the mind, body, and spirit into a dialogue of personal understanding and healing. The primary ingredient in an ayahuasca brew is the vine Banisteriopsis caapi, commonly revered as the mother of all plants. Other plants are added to the vine brew, typically those containing DMT, such as Psychotria viridis or Diplopterys cabrerana, and also many other plants not containing DMT, called admixtures, whose capacities are considered to be activated by the ayahuasca vine. In the Amazon, there is no traditional understanding of the existence of DMT per se, just that adding DMT-containing plants such as Psychotria viridis will give the ayahuasca brew more ‘light’ and visionary depth. Yet, the vine is considered to be the primary component of the brew, and the DMT-containing plants and other plants are typically considered to be admixtures to the vine brew. It is possible to drink a strong brew containing only ayahuasca vine and still experience a visionary state, although DMT containing plants are normally required for stronger visionary states. (4. Ayahuasca. Introduction to Ayahuasca)
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The drive to increase the DMT content in ayahuasca brews was largely instigated in the 1980s, when researchers such as Jonathan Ott and Terence McKenna went to the Amazon and could not find ayahuasca brews that would give them visions. DMT dosages that modern day ayahuascaros give to the gringos are in no way representative of the traditional usage of ayahuasca, where the visionary qualities of the medicine are respected, but not considered primary. (4. Ayahuasca. The Religion of Ayahuasca)
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I think that more and more people will increasingly understand that a vine heavy brew, with relatively small amounts of DMT, is about the best preventive medicine a human being can ever take. (4. Ayahuasca. The Religion of Ayahuasca.)
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Articulations: On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics. Julian Palmer. 2014. Anastomosis Books. ISBN: 9780992552817


Drinking Ayahuasca without DMT is Powerful and Traditional. Matteo Politi, PhD. March 31, 2020. kahpi.net


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While some scientists might describe the Ayahuasca experience as merely an oral DMT experience activated by a beta carboline MAO inhibitor, this description is not accurate, for the healing processes at work within the medicine are far more complex, unquestionably due to the ayahuasca vine which is responsible for the transformative power of the Ayahuasca experience. One could easily point to the name of the medicine to know that it is the vine that gives the brew its power, and this idea is supported by nearly every culture that uses ayahuasca in the Amazon Rainforest.

Here is a quote from Richard Evans Shultes, one of the earliest pioneers in ayahuasca research, describing merely the effects of the vine alone:  “To this day, the natives of the north-west Amazon in Brazil and Colombia use the Banisteriopsis drink for prophetic and divinatory purposes and also to fortify the bravery of male adolescents about to undergo the severely painful yurupari ceremony for initiation into manhood. The narcosis amongst these peoples, with whom I have taken caapi on many occasions, is usually pleasant, characterized by visual hallucinations in color, which initially is very often a shade of blue or purple. In excessive doses, it is said to bring on frighteningly nightmarish visions and a feeling of extremely reckless abandon, although consciousness is not lost nor is use of the limbs unduly affected”.

Even though all ayahuasca vines are botanically classified as Banisteriopsis caapi, the curanderos classify them further, in reference to their effects. An example is cielo ayahuasca, which means sky or heaven ayahuasca, implying that its effect is of bringing one to celestial realms
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http://www.ayahuascaassociation.org/plants/ayahuasca-is-a-sacred-medicine

Edited by s240779 (08/14/26 10:39 PM)

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Re: The myth that ayahuasca has to contain DMT [Re: s240779] * 3
    #29176374 -

This is something many purists were adamant about way back in the 90's and 00's to be fair.

But I think within the culture itself, when we say Ayahuasca most people mean with an admix included. Otherwise it could be so many different things...

I agree. The true power of Ayahuasca is the Caapi just as the true power of Anahuasca (as I call it) is the Rue.

But I would still argue that the real power of the Aya/Ana experience lies in the symbiosis between both substances, the power and the light.

Rue and Caapi can be powerful experiences but are nothing without the DMT admixtures.

The reverse is also true.

It never ceased to amaze me, when the DMT itself folded up and fucked off, that there under the hood was the true power (or physicality) of the experience still working. But it's uncanny. Because I could take a couple of grams of Rue (or equivalent caapi) and be utterly underwhelmed!

Mix with a bit of admixture though and its without doubt the most therapeutic substance I have ever known!


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"I'm every nightmare you ever had. I am your worst dreams come true. I am everything you ever were afraid of."

Pennywise the dancing clown


Edited by wolf8312 (04/02/25 11:43 AM)

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Re: The myth that ayahuasca has to contain DMT [Re: wolf8312] * 1
    #29176379 -

Exactly this. It’s like the Caapi or Rue lays the foundation, but without the admixture, you’re missing the language the experience speaks in. The DMT brings the visions, sure, but that deep rewiring, the real therapeutic shift, seems to come from how they interact. It’s a dance, not a solo

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Re: The myth that ayahuasca has to contain DMT [Re: VonShroomich]
    #29176870 -

What do you guys think about cannabis mixed with ayahuasca? I probably haven't done Aya without cannabis so I don't have a comparison. But when caapi + dmt is peaking and I'm sipping on cannabis vapors... bliss. My internal process that gets lifted on cannabis becomes illustrated in the visuals. When I'm alone super stoned and nodding deep into my thoughts, it's like mini freebase breakthroughs. I guess that probably would still happen without cannabis, but there's something about the combination that really does it for me.

Specifically something about cannabis' effect on the senses and memory. Things taste better, smell better when you're high. But when you're high on ayahuasca, the effect is even stronger. Smelling the cannabis as I'm vaping it lights up so many feelings associated with being high, which manifest metaphysically by ayahuasca, and visually by dmt. I haven't done ketamine but it sounds similar to a k-hole where I'm just catatonically getting exponentially high from the one hit that set off an avalanche of accumulated experiences as reverberating sensations.

Another way I've described it is smelling one strain brings up the subconscious memory of every strain I've ever smelled, manifesting literal combined effects of every high I've ever had.



Do you guys think the relationship between caapi and dmt is more than just one being an MAO inhibitor and the other being suppressed by MAO?

I haven't taken caapi or mhrb on their own, but I would only expect caapi to have any solo effects. Is harmala's MAOI activity the main reason it's psychoactive or is there something else? Regardless of its MAOI properties, I wonder how it might be with just caapi and cannabis, or caapi and LSD/mescaline. I already know what rue and mushrooms is like... an easy overdose and not as pleasant as caapi + dmt.

That reminds me that part of the reason I think caapi is special is because THH isn't just a RIMA / MAOI, it's also a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. I'm not sure if that's the same as an SSRI, maybe THH is just a general inhibitor and non-selective? But I think that adds another partner to the dance. If MAOI gets DMT to the synapse that it shares with serotonin, then THH holds it there longer than it would without.


SSRI + MAOI is supposed to = serotonin syndrome, but anyone using caapi with THH is doing just that. Can anyone explain?

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Re: The myth that ayahuasca has to contain DMT [Re: Icon] * 1
    #29176883 -

We have to remember that not all SSRIs are made equal. THH might be an SRI, but how good is it as an SRI? How does it compare to our synthetically manufactured man made drugs?

When they tell you not to combine those things it’s just meant kind of as a rule of thumb to protect people from doing something silly and ending up in hospital. Of course, there would be dosages of any of these contraindicated compounds which would be safe to take together, but the vast majority of the population doesn’t need to know that. They just need to be told this and that are dangerous together, don’t do it.

For us folk who are more curious we can find out that the rule can be pushed a bit further, but it doesn’t mean that it’s a bad rule or that it’s wrong.

I’m also sure there would be some MAOIs which are safer to take with some SSRIs and some which are more dangerous, and it’s obviously all dose dependant.

The categories of MAOI and SSRI are large.


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"God is an intelligible sphere, whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

Llamando la Mareacion

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Re: The myth that ayahuasca has to contain DMT [Re: Bardy]
    #29176905 -

Do you think THH's SRI activity is enough to potentiate DMT?

I wonder if a relationship could be detected with THH + freebase, in absence of MAOI influence. Well idk since THH is both.

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Re: The myth that ayahuasca has to contain DMT [Re: Icon]
    #29176925 -

A couple more things I'm curious about.

My understanding is tobacco was a common admixture, I think both in the brew and smoked during ceremony. I'm not a tobacco user but I'm curious what the synergy is there.

Also wondering where the special diet idea originated. It doesn't seem to be necessary for pharma, and diet conflicts might be overblown in general. One thing I recall is avoiding tryptophan on aya, which is strange because you'd think if some cultures weren't using DMT, maybe they were using caapi's maoi effect to get high from certain foods? Apparently tryptophan is a precursor to serotonin, which was sposed to be another way to get serotonin syndrome. My friend drank a dark beer on Aya which apparently contains tryptophan and he reported the worst headache. But I really have no idea what amounts of tryptophan and rates of conversion to serotonin would make a difference, if any.

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Re: The myth that ayahuasca has to contain DMT [Re: Icon]
    #29176936 -

There might be some kind of SRI plus DMT synergy… I don’t know.

We do have people report here that their SSRI medication sometimes diminishes trips, and sometimes doesn’t affect the trip at all. I’ve never heard someone claim that their SSRI synergised with or made stronger their trip.

My guess would be that an SSRI might make it feel more comfortable? Maybe… but not actually synergise with it directly. Not even sure what I mean by that haha.

Nicotine acts as an NMDA antagonist I think as well as it’s other actions, and NMDA antagonists (such as NO2, ketamine, DXM etc) are well known trip potentiators, increasing visuals and immersion as well as helping to relax the person into it (allowing you to go deeper).


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"God is an intelligible sphere, whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

Llamando la Mareacion

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Re: The myth that ayahuasca has to contain DMT [Re: Bardy]
    #29176953 -

True I mostly hear of diminished effects with SSRI users. I assumed maybe because their synapses are already occupied by the serotonin, it's blocking DMT from landing? Or maybe that's what they mean by selective - maybe SSRI meds cautiously only open a gate for serotonin and not other molecules, blocking associates like DMT by coincidence.

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Re: The myth that ayahuasca has to contain DMT [Re: Icon] * 1
    #29177039 -

I think selective means that the particular drug is only inhibiting the reuptake of serotonin at specific serotonin receptors.

I really have no idea how SSRIs work though, and I don’t think the doctors who prescribe it know either :lol:


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"God is an intelligible sphere, whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

Llamando la Mareacion

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Re: The myth that ayahuasca has to contain DMT [Re: Bardy]
    #29183453 -

Bardy said:
When they tell you not to combine those things it’s just meant kind of as a rule of thumb to protect people from doing something silly and ending up in hospital. Of course, there would be dosages of any of these contraindicated compounds which would be safe to take together, but the vast majority of the population doesn’t need to know that. They just need to be told this and that are dangerous together, don’t do it.

For us folk who are more curious we can find out that the rule can be pushed a bit further, but it doesn’t mean that it’s a bad rule or that it’s wrong.



Bardy said:
I’m also sure there would be some MAOIs which are safer to take with some SSRIs and some which are more dangerous, and it’s obviously all dose dependant.



Indeed, I explore that in my recent post. ⇩ Irreversibles are riskier with SRIs, as some people have assumed.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29183445#29183445

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