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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: cronicr]
    #29099866 -

bodhisatta said:
MushroomLady said:
pablokabute said:
not exactly because when you do cloning, there are still lots of genetic strains going on.. you isolate strains and grow it out to see if what you get is a keeper.. when you pinpoint the genetic strain that you want from an agar clone, they call it a monoculture...


My understanding is that when you clone a mushroom it is a monoculture.  When you take the tissue from the mushroom there are no other strains involved like with spores.  Is that not correct?


A monoculture is misued as a synonym for isolate.
A monoculture is a clone. It can be made of one or more strains working in complete harmony, it can sector but doesn't readily do so also why we don't worry so much about taking wedges off Clone plates.

An isolate is the genetics from only two spores. Hard to obtain thru transfers much easier to obtain thru serial dilution


So while u say here's bod saying a monoculture is from 2 spores...here he is saying the complete opposite saying a clone is a monoculture and an isolate is from a set of spores


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: cronicr] * 2
    #29099964 -

Sorry to not be involved in the discussion Nektar, Cron, Thurm, I've had a NIGHTmare of a couple weeks. Haven't had a day off three week.  Skin Cancer biopsies on my face etc.  I gotta get out the door to work I just wanted to say a couple things real quick.

Well I think I see it from both sides having thought about it a bit more.  I really appreciate what Nektar is trying to do.  I totally admit I have been one of these people thats been confused on this topic for a long time, so I can totally appreciate the effort.  I'll also admit I didn't actually have time to read your edits I guess I assumed you'd added a couple notes.  I agree, I think in a sense it would be an honor if people were using my work all these years later.

I can also see where Cron is coming from.  If someone edited and republished my work I guess I might be a little insulted.  I suppose someday they may want to do something similar to the HHG but I'd like to think I'll be around to make the edits myself and I did vow to keep it a living document.

Well that said, I think I'd love to make a tek if you guys aren't already on it.  I guess I don't see it as needing to be all that complex but I've taken my own approach that might actually be frowned upon?

I  Streak some spores, take a transfer or three. If they seems clean, I run em. 
If they seem suspect, maybe I'll take another T and run those.

Thats pretty much it if I'm being honest.  Even when I take a clone I'm not taking leading edges or much of that unless I'm trying to expand a culture I know is pretty awesome.

Similarly, I take a clone and if it seems clean I fuckin send it.  Plins and all. 

I dunno.  I'm really hoping to have a little downtime this weekend so lets stay in touch and try to come up with a gameplan here. Wouldn't hurt to have a variety of options, but after thinking about it I think I feel like we should leave stro's thing alone.  Sorry Nektar I know you worked really hard on that and bless you for being so involved in helping the cause. I don't feel that it was "shitting on the shoulders of giants" lol. fuckin cron. so dramatic hahah.  But I do see where hes coming from too a bit.

Let me know what you think guys.


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Need a lift?

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: cronicr] * 1
    #29100263 -

Beef, thank you. We'll get this done.

I sent a DM about skin cancer biopsies.

cronicr said:
Yes genetic diversity is very important when culture hunting , it's far easier to get what you're after from a ms culture than it is from a T12 through 21 set of plates...it's simple cultivation 101


Yes.

Do you remember which TC went to 80 transfers and still got sectors? That should for sure be in any new tek.

I just added this at the top of the first post:

Note from Nektar: This is a placeholder tek to link from some popular "everything" teks here. This one will work until we write a new one.


--------------------
--I'm doing a poppy seed giveaway
--Why You're probably growing x7x+, not x7x!
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

Edited by nektar61 (01/24/25 11:20 AM)

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: BeefExtreme]
    #29100548 -

Here's the thread where verum went up to T80 of trying to isolate sectors and it kept sectoring:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24741888#24741888

He includes this near the end:
"Seems to me that the farther isolated i get the less rhizo the culture is.

"It also seems that the apparently isolated transfers grow more slowly than the ones with genetics still fighting for nutrients."

-----
You know one thing that would really help new users here is if Ythan changed something so the "related posts" at the bottom of every page here didn't have posts going back to the 90s.

I've made some suggestions for the site to him that he's implemented (including automatically adding the "this may be old and out of date info" on the top of any page over 5 years old), but he didn't implement that one when I suggested it.


--------------------
--I'm doing a poppy seed giveaway
--Why You're probably growing x7x+, not x7x!
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

Edited by nektar61 (01/24/25 03:58 PM)

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #29100552 -

I'm working on a plan to change the face of cult in general, will be a lot of work involved but ultimately will solve most issues


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: cronicr]
    #29100557 -

cronicr said:
I'm working on a plan to change the face of cult in general, will be a lot of work involved but ultimately will solve most issues


By "the face of cult"
do you mean the look / navigation of this website, or changing the whole hobby?


--------------------
--I'm doing a poppy seed giveaway
--Why You're probably growing x7x+, not x7x!
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: nektar61]
    #29100563 -

Just literally the face...so when you open cult it will look different


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: cronicr]
    #29100564 -

Sidenote...verum was not a tv at the time of their post and wouldn't achieve that tag for another 2 years, I would know this because it was me who tagged them 😆


--------------------
It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn
I'm tired do me a favor

I'M A MEMBER FIRST, TC WHEN NEEDED AND MOD WHEN I HAVE TO BE !!!

Edited by cronicr (01/24/25 04:04 PM)

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: cronicr] * 1
    #29100575 -

cronicr said:
Just literally the face...so when you open cult it will look different


Like a skin?

Whatever it is, I'd recommend making it easy to go back to how it was. A lot of people get irked when websites update just to do it and don't let you go back easily, or at all.

A simple example is the Christmas and Halloween skins here. I turn them off immediately. Tried them the first time and it distracted my aspieness.

There are a lot of fucking aspies here. Shrooms attract them (us)

thanks for the TC note. I guess I just remembered "OG" / good grower / respected, as "TC"

I'm taking notes in case I end up writing the tek we need. I've changed it to
"....respected and experienced grower Verum..."


--------------------
--I'm doing a poppy seed giveaway
--Why You're probably growing x7x+, not x7x!
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: nektar61]
    #29100578 -

sorry nektar i havent had any energy to work.  im just kindof flat on my back on a hot pad im just happy enouhh to have survived my work week ill hopefully get some time this weekend to sit at the computer.


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Need a lift?

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: BeefExtreme]
    #29100598 -

BeefSupremeJr said:
sorry nektar i havent had any energy to work.  im just kindof flat on my back on a hot pad im just happy enouhh to have survived my work week ill hopefully get some time this weekend to sit at the computer.


Later:
Glad to see you changed it. When we get another one written I'll let you know.


--------------------
--I'm doing a poppy seed giveaway
--Why You're probably growing x7x+, not x7x!
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

Edited by nektar61 (02/05/25 04:46 AM)

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: nektar61]
    #29114238 -



--------------------

∴Genetics Info∴Ps. ovoideocystidiata and Native Americans∴

∴The Official Woodlovers Thread∴Outdoor Mushroom Cultivation∴

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: catnip40]
    #29114360 -

catnip40 said:



What's that from?

Are you saying that says people should look for sectors? I'm not sure what you're saying.

If so, I think what that's talking about can't be seen without a microscope, and Bod said similar, last line here:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27108452#27108452

And Bod does biological work for a brewery for a day job, so I think he'd know better than a lot of people here. I have more to say on this, but won't until I find out what you're saying.

I have been meaning to tell you, I really like your avatar. It makes me smile. Did you make it with AI?


--------------------
--I'm doing a poppy seed giveaway
--Why You're probably growing x7x+, not x7x!
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #29114427 -

it means even if its a monoculture it can sometimes produce sectoring

so even tho verum went t80 on that shit and it was still sectoring.. theres really no way of saying it wasnt a monoculture just cuz it sectored. theres no way of telling either way by looking at agar and seeing sectoring.

i do agree with u that chasing sectoring is stupid cuz u cant tell what ur looking at on agar. but u also just cant say that just bc a culture is sectoring that its NOT a monoculture cuz it could just be unstable or become unstable for a number of reasons from what i gather.

more often than not a culture that is sectoring is probably not a monoculture, but the only thing im trying to point out is that it seems theres various reasons why a true isolated monoculture could sector as well

i will try to find the paper that i took that snippet from i should have linked it thats my bad

edit: thank u lol, i photoshopped the picture and then i ran it thru that deepdream ai that was pretty early. like the first ai thing i really remember like 10 years ago maybe


--------------------

∴Genetics Info∴Ps. ovoideocystidiata and Native Americans∴

∴The Official Woodlovers Thread∴Outdoor Mushroom Cultivation∴

Edited by catnip40 (02/05/25 07:53 AM)

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: catnip40] * 1
    #29114436 -

Inheritance of Strain Instability (Sectoring) in the Commercial Button Mushroom, Agaricus bisporus
https://journals.asm.org/doi/pdf/10.1128/aem.60.7.2384-2388.1994


--------------------

∴Genetics Info∴Ps. ovoideocystidiata and Native Americans∴

∴The Official Woodlovers Thread∴Outdoor Mushroom Cultivation∴

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: catnip40]
    #29115324 -

catnip40 said:
edit: thank u lol, i photoshopped the picture and then i ran it thru that deepdream ai that was pretty early. like the first ai thing i really remember like 10 years ago maybe


That's why your avatar looks so cool. It's that caveman AI that no one uses anymore, but should.

I always saw dogs hidden in DeepDream, I think they were really in the art, right?

And I am sure some of the people on the team that programmed that have done psychedelics.


--------------------
--I'm doing a poppy seed giveaway
--Why You're probably growing x7x+, not x7x!
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

Edited by nektar61 (02/06/25 02:32 AM)

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #29115347 -

i remember always seeing dogs in the pictures too or the ai turning things into dogs lol

i probably haven't used it since i made that avatar though cant remember too well


--------------------

∴Genetics Info∴Ps. ovoideocystidiata and Native Americans∴

∴The Official Woodlovers Thread∴Outdoor Mushroom Cultivation∴

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: catnip40] * 1
    #29115375 -

catnip40 said:
i remember always seeing dogs in the pictures too or the ai turning things into dogs lol


I guess we didn't imagine it. Article from a decade ago:
Why Google’s Deep Dream A.I. Hallucinates In Dog Faces


--------------------
--I'm doing a poppy seed giveaway
--Why You're probably growing x7x+, not x7x!
--GROWING SHROOMS, FROM SPORES TO TRIPS
--x7x+ variety history.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: nektar61] * 2
    #29115456 -

Cronic, Nekatar, and anyone else who wants to sort this out, this is the appropriate thread. 

I'll be honest here, Im not sure what the critical path forward is but I do know that it doesnt need to be ugly.  Lets just decide: what are we trying to accomplish? what is the best way to get it accomplished? what are we wanting people to understand from our community on this topic?

where do we go from here?  What is the issue with Nektar's effort to streamline this process?
Theres an answer here and it isnt obvious enough to get pissed about.


--------------------
Need a lift?

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Re: Stro's Cleaning and Isolating On Agar (with out-of-date "sectors" part removed, revision still under construction) [Re: BeefExtreme] * 3
    #29115498 -

The crux of this is disagreement. This site is rife with it. It shapes the path forward. We need it.

If this site were full of only Yes Men, we would be on par with Reddit.

So, accepting disagreement as integral to our progress, we have to be able to disagree respectfully. Over and over again.

The goal is to move the knowledge base forward. Not to make anyone angry or hurt.

Let's try to remember the fellow cultivators we are talking to and go Golden Rule on they ass.


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

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