bodhisatta said:

Why are businesses suppose to subsidize people who are not worth the higher wages? That's why we have a government and taxes. UBI is the only solution to the idea that people should all be able to live even if they're disabled or too depressed to contribute enough energy to even support themselves. The business that should be paying the standard living wage is your fucking government.

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Asante said:

bodhisatta said:

My wage has far outpaced inflation and I'm not trying that hard to chase money.

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You are on another level of capability, you're not stuck at minimum wage.


Lets ignore the many reasons why someone may be stuck at a minimum wage job, and take just a simple example of them: Low IQ.

At which IQ is it OK to take peoples freedom away by paying them insufficiently to fend for themselves?

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Psion said:

what people don't seem to realize is that the vast majority of those "fucked up kids with shitty attitudes" are that way because, well... they're poor. in a cycle of sheer abject poverty. it smacks you in the face in everything you do. the clothes you wear? utter rubbish that falls apart and looks like shit, making you silently judged (or overtly judged) by everyone around you, and sometimes you struggle to even afford to wash your clothes, because often you're struggling to pay the water bills, electric bills, or even affording coin for the washing/drying machines, because cheaper apartments often do not come with such things included as part of the utilities. heck, sometimes you're struggling to afford just the detergent, because such things aren't covered by food stamps. because it's not food.

same thing with the food. if you're lucky you get maybe 120$ a month for food for a single person, so ~28$ a week for food. not exactly lobster tacos and steak dinners every night. more like ramen and chips and whatever cheap processed crap can fill your belly for 3-4$ a night. it's all about calories per dollar spent, not nutrition - whatever can fill your belly so you're not starving at the end of the month.

youre dependant on ebt for food because all that money you're making at work is going toward bills and rent, and what free money is left over is usually going toward student loans, or whatever emergency has occured due to something breaking down because all you have is cheap crap - because you have no savings to buy good quality merchandise that lasts a long time. being cheap is expensive. often it's your car that breaks down, which cannot be ignored - you need that to get to work and continue making money. or its a medical emergency that you can't just power through with tylenol and bandaids. you wonder why there's an obesity epidemic, look no further than the fact that almost half of america is stupidly poor - they can't afford proper nutrition, they're depressed because they're poor, they can't afford to live a proper life, and they're stuck in a cycle of working multiple jobs, constantly exhausted, too tired, too depressed, and too poorly malnourished to even find the energy to get out of the cycle of poverty. it's hard enough to look for better jobs when you have the time and energy, the workskills and good health/looks to do so - try doing that when you've got absolutely none of that, when you're in an absolute shithole, the worst time of your life.

the unemployment boost has been an absolute boon for the poorest of america, giving them space, time, and extra funds to seek actual jobs that pay a living wage. it's given them leverage, the power to say "no, your offerings absolutely suck balls, fuck this shit, im looking elsewhere for something better" and companies are flipping the fuck out because suddenly the ball is in the other side of the court and they're making every excuse and lie they can to try and weaken the power of the worker - because the truth getting out would be terrifying to them - that supply and demand goes both ways, and when demand for labor goes up... so do wages. when wages go up, so does quality of life. when wages go up, spending power goes up, and the the economy booms, resulting in wealth redistributing to the masses... as well as influence, and power. this means a fairer, healthier economy, AND a fairer, healthier political system as the voices of the masses are suddenly raised in comparison to the voices of a few ultra billionaires. as it should be.

after all, why should a few thousand have the only say in the growth and direction of the entire world?

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Psion said:

bodhisatta said:

Why are businesses suppose to subsidize people who are not worth the higher wages? That's why we have a government and taxes. UBI is the only solution to the idea that people should all be able to live even if they're disabled or too depressed to contribute enough energy to even support themselves. The business that should be paying the standard living wage is your fucking government.

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why should the government be subsidizing businesses that, by all rights, should be doing perfectly well on their own? wal-mart, target, mega-corporations? instead they're passing on the costs to the government by forcing people to apply for benefits such as food stamps, despite the fact that they don't nearly cover the cost of living because the GOP keeps cutting benefits, forcing arbitrary rules like requiring certain numbers of hours worked, and more. these businesses are the true welfare queens, despite making billions. fuck them. if they cannot afford to pay their workers a living wage, they have no business being in business.

let the weak die off and the strong survive... in the business world. because THAT is where the killing field is supposed to happen, NOT in the GODSDAMNED HOMES OF THE INNOCENTS. FUCK.

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bodhisatta said:

No ones taking them away. If you never even apply for a job you're not making 15/hr. But if you apply for a job they pay 7 and not 15 all the sudden they're taking your freedom away? That's ridiculous

Are businesses taking freedom away from all the unemployed people too for not handing out 600 dollars a week to every one of them?

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Quote:

greenladel said:i hope your kids get stuck in that position somehow so you can see it from the other side. not in a nasty way, just so you can learn to see how it really is down the poor end.

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You're going to seriously cause the conversation devolve to a point that you are wishing bad shit on people's kids, and exhibiting THAT level of presumptuousness?

Seriously?

bodhisatta said:

When the owner's kids worked laat year they worked in my department. And it was weird because they're lazy but they're the owners kids so you can't nuke them. They started at 10/hr. Which wasn't my decision

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