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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: Fiery]
    #27194585 -

Actually, now I'm more interested in finding collectible coins. How many pounds of coins would you have to go through to find coins that were worth $1000 more than their face value?

Consider that a nickel that's worth 8 cents is probably not worth selling unless you can sell them by the bag. I'm not interested in trying to sell coins for scrap metal, either.


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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #27194607 -

Well, to find the penny that was worth $400 I probably went through like 10-20- boxes of $25 each.

I still have a lots of possible error coins to go through- It can be tedious so get one of those LED handheld magnifying glasses.

For instance- as I'm sorting out the copper pennies I will pull all the 1998 1999 2000's etc to look for the AM error.


The golden ticket would be to find a 1983 copper penny. There's tons of errors worth money.

Finding numismatic coins in circulation is hard, but can be done.

Personally, investing in numismatics is not for me- I'd prefer melt value.



Baby_Hitler said:
I'm not interested in trying to sell coins for scrap metal, either.


Me either- right now- But in the future? Yes.


When the price of copper went way high a while back selling copper pennies on Ebay with flat rate boxes for shipping was pretty good.



There are lots of good "error" coins to look for in the penny line- not so many in nickles. Lots of state quarters have good ones too- But the key here is the MS rating- the highest being 70. For a collectable coin to fetch a good price it has to have a high MS rating by a well known company and be "slabbed" put into a protective tamper proof case. which costs anywhere from like $10- $60 per coin, depending on how many you send in to be graded.

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: Fiery] * 2
    #27194688 -

Haven't read much of the thread past the first few pages. Not sure what the political discussion on minimum wage is right now at the congressional level either, so these are just thoughts really. 

I agree with raising the minimum wage. $15 right off the bat is a large increase for small businesses if it happened all at once, I think $12 is more reasonable federally, but with the caveat that it raise with inflation yearly instead of being a one off cap that needs to be reworked a decade from now. I think there is a compelling argument that higher wages will drive certain jobs out of the market, but I think ultimately it's a necessary trade off - automation is a natural progression of technology and has historically created more stable living situations for people than it has hurt.

I'm fortunate to be out of the minimum wage grind, but what I was making in low paying restaurants 10 years ago is the same amount people in the lowest minimum wage jobs are earning today. That's dismal.

I think at the minimum, people should be able to afford appropriate housing, food, health coverage and amenities at 30 hours per week, 48 weeks per year. At 40 hours per week, 48 weeks per year I think people should be able to afford basic housing, food and amenities, but should also be able to afford community college classes and technical certifications out of pocket (ie, not taking out 4.5-8% loans to learn new skills). And at 80 hours per week, 52 weeks per year, you should have enough excess income to comfortably take a year or two off work every decade. In all cases, people should be able to afford the costs of living like this while still having the time to sleep 8 hours a day, socialize with friends or family, exercise and cook their own meals.

If the lowest earning people have time to exercise, eat well, socialize, take on career progressing education and can take off work 4 weeks out of the year for rest, emergencies, and personal development, that is all a net benefit for society as a whole.

Several industries may have their labor infrastructure challenged, but I think if a job role cannot provide these basic costs, the job itself is not appropriately priced to begin with. Perhaps the job should not exist in the first place in the same way, maybe the job role needs to be adapted where the worker in that role can do more efficient work in the same time period or a specific product being made is not priced correctly for the work being put into it.

Fast food as the example. Many fast food type places are starting to offer $15-16 an hour to start, $5-6 above most state minimum wages. If other fast food places shut down because they cannot keep up with employment or keep business booming, I think that's a net positive. It ultimately frees up real estate for other businesses to take off in an area that is oversaturated with corporate franchises. It actually benefits smaller businesses in the long run by allowing them to operate in the absence of a franchise stronghold. A local restaurant for example can take the ecological placement and operate with higher wages, more diverse offerings to the local area and smaller overhead costs overall. If you set the minimum wage to a livable one, I think it would accelerate this process overall across more industries than just restaurant work.

Edited by PatrickKn (02/09/21 04:06 AM)

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: koods]
    #27194699 -

koods said:
That’s not fair. Trump supporters are good at jobs that stopped existing a generation ago, like coal mining, telephone operators and lynching negros



“The Jewish n*gger Lassalle who, I’m glad to say, is leaving at the end of this week, has happily lost another 5,000 talers in an ill-judged speculation. The chap would sooner throw money down the drain than lend it to a ‘friend,’ even though his interest and capital were guaranteed. … It is now quite plain to me—as the shape of his head and the way his hair grows also testify—that he is descended from the negroes who accompanied Moses’ flight from Egypt (unless his mother or paternal grandmother interbred with a n*gger). Now, this blend of Jewishness and Germanness, on the one hand, and basic negroid stock, on the other, must inevitably give rise to a peculiar product. The fellow’s importunity is also n*gger-like.”

-Karl Marx, “Marx to Friedrich Engels in Manchester,” 1862. http://hiaw.org/defcon6/works/1862/letters/62_07_30a.html

Marx was MAGA AF.

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #27194958 -

TheStallionMang said:
TheStallionMang said:
Quote:
The most lazy and unmotivated people are generally going to end up being the lowest wage earners


qman said:
Quote:
Half of the US labor market is lazy and shouldn't have a livable wage.  :flowstone:


How did you take that from what I said?
The fact that the lazy/unmotivated end up making the least doesn't mean everyone on the bottom is lazy of unmotivated


Ok, what should we do about the tens of millions of hard working American's not making a livable wage today?

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: qman]
    #27194988 -

UBI


--------------------
:whyyy:

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: qman]
    #27195007 -

qman said:
TheStallionMang said:
TheStallionMang said:
Quote:
The most lazy and unmotivated people are generally going to end up being the lowest wage earners


qman said:
Quote:
Half of the US labor market is lazy and shouldn't have a livable wage.  :flowstone:


How did you take that from what I said?
The fact that the lazy/unmotivated end up making the least doesn't mean everyone on the bottom is lazy of unmotivated


Ok, what should we do about the tens of millions of hard working American's not making a livable wage today?


1 - you avoided answering my question about how you twisted what I said

2 - WTF makes you think I have the answer for that?


--------------------
Pastywhyte's easy no pour agar dishes

Stallion Mang’s Ween covers

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: TheStallionMang] * 1
    #27195329 -

There's a good reason supermarkets, walmart, amazon, target, etc... All hire at 12+ an hour. They're lobbying for 15/hr. It just puts the small guys under. Anyone with a lick of skill can make 15/hr already.
UBI should fill in the gaps for the people who can't earn or won't earn. It shouldn't be a tax on america's businesses


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:whyyy:

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: Cracked Egg]
    #27195336 -

They are going to leave it to the States.  They are pulling the 15 dollar part of it.  Though federally I think they are going to raise it to 9 something.  Anyone that is working for 7.25, kill yourself.

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27195342 -

TheStallionMang said:
qman said:
TheStallionMang said:
TheStallionMang said:
Quote:
The most lazy and unmotivated people are generally going to end up being the lowest wage earners


qman said:
Quote:
Half of the US labor market is lazy and shouldn't have a livable wage.  :flowstone:


How did you take that from what I said?
The fact that the lazy/unmotivated end up making the least doesn't mean everyone on the bottom is lazy of unmotivated


Ok, what should we do about the tens of millions of hard working American's not making a livable wage today?


1 - you avoided answering my question about how you twisted what I said

2 - WTF makes you think I have the answer for that?


I didn't twist anything, your generalization statements are very clear- low wage earners are directly correlated with lazy and unmotivated people. You just pulled that out of your ass because you obviously didn't provide any evidence, do you have any?

Also, if you're going to blame workers for workers issues, then you're not likely to have any solutions other than blaming poor people for the dysfunctions of the existing economic system.

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #27195349 -

I don’t think it really hurts the small businesses. They are already competing with 12/hr as you say, and anybody worth a shit makes 15/hr according to you. So what changes? The teenagers they currently employ for 10 hours a week now make twice as much, a difference of $72.50. If your business can’t absorb $72.50 a week then it’s too late. Of course, the surrounding community should have greater disposable income and spend more at your business as a result. I know I see massive increases in sales after every stimulus, so the people are willing to spend it if they have it.

The difference is that all of the wage whores have to pay up for once, and the worst offenders are by and large big box stores. You ever ask for help at Home Depot? You might as well just slam your head in the display door jams. It’s a waste of time because they don’t pay or train their people enough to make them worth being there. That’s not employment, that’s them doing the absolute minimum so somebody turns the lights on and off. If they are going to be shit employers, then let them be shit employers, but people need to survive in the mean time.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Edited by christopera (02/09/21 01:43 PM)

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27195353 -

bodhisatta said:
There's a good reason supermarkets, walmart, amazon, target, etc... All hire at 12+ an hour. They're lobbying for 15/hr. It just puts the small guys under. Anyone with a lick of skill can make 15/hr already.
UBI should fill in the gaps for the people who can't earn or won't earn. It shouldn't be a tax on america's businesses


No, UBI should also fill the gap for low wage earners as well and businesses should be taxed to fund that program. What sense would it make to tax workers to fund themselves?  :facepalm:  Obviously it's business that's making the higher margins by paying the lower wages, that's the money to tax.

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: qman]
    #27196563 -

qman said:
bodhisatta said:
There's a good reason supermarkets, walmart, amazon, target, etc... All hire at 12+ an hour. They're lobbying for 15/hr. It just puts the small guys under. Anyone with a lick of skill can make 15/hr already.
UBI should fill in the gaps for the people who can't earn or won't earn. It shouldn't be a tax on america's businesses


No, UBI should also fill the gap for low wage earners as well and businesses should be taxed to fund that program. What sense would it make to tax workers to fund themselves?  :facepalm:  Obviously it's business that's making the higher margins by paying the lower wages, that's the money to tax.


So 100% of businesses are hiding revenue, regardless of their size (small, medium, large, mom and pop, sole-prop, gig worker, freelancer), 100% of the time, with no exceptions, which could go to paying more people?

Can you prove this?

It's almost like you're conflating the insane economically tyrannical influence mega corps have, and projecting that anger at and onto ALL businesses.


--------------------

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #27196572 -

Revenue is perspective- for instance- if I grow a plant from a cutting, and nurture it to fruitition and beyond- as a hardy perennial there would have been years of cultivation and time put into maintaining and originating a stable fruit producing tree.


So- when it comes time to sell- all that some people see is a super high price tag and not the years it took to evolve such a pristine specimen.


This is the value of market and the eye.

However- others see the specimen for it's true wortth- which is inumerable- which some forget to consider and consider their tree form as one way or the other.

Art is a whole nother story. Poor people absolutely love the museums- it is their inspiration trust me I know.

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #27196585 -

Loaded Shaman said:
qman said:
bodhisatta said:
There's a good reason supermarkets, walmart, amazon, target, etc... All hire at 12+ an hour. They're lobbying for 15/hr. It just puts the small guys under. Anyone with a lick of skill can make 15/hr already.
UBI should fill in the gaps for the people who can't earn or won't earn. It shouldn't be a tax on america's businesses


No, UBI should also fill the gap for low wage earners as well and businesses should be taxed to fund that program. What sense would it make to tax workers to fund themselves?  :facepalm:  Obviously it's business that's making the higher margins by paying the lower wages, that's the money to tax.


So 100% of businesses are hiding revenue, regardless of their size (small, medium, large, mom and pop, sole-prop, gig worker, freelancer), 100% of the time, with no exceptions, which could go to paying more people?

Can you prove this?

It's almost like you're conflating the insane economically tyrannical influence mega corps have, and projecting that anger at and onto ALL businesses.


generally when people refer to taxing businesses, they mean businesses that make over a certain amount/have a certain number of employees, aka the mega corps and not the small businesses. usually small businesses tend to get waived or lower rates on such things.

granted, they might not actually be arguing that position and be arguing for all businesses to get the same rate...but it's probably not the case. likewise, another popular line of thought to pay for UBI is a wealth tax via an extra % of tax on the highest earning americans, such as those who make say, 600k a a year or more. for those who make less, there would be nothing extra.

though in this case, you might see the wealthiest shuffling their wealth to assets instead of direct income to lower their taxable income... which is a problem. some countries are considering one time "asset taxes" instead, taxing all of a persons wealth instead of just direct income (but just once instead of yearly) instead to prevent such tax evasions. it's a tricky issue.

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27196936 -

Loaded Shaman said:
qman said:
bodhisatta said:
There's a good reason supermarkets, walmart, amazon, target, etc... All hire at 12+ an hour. They're lobbying for 15/hr. It just puts the small guys under. Anyone with a lick of skill can make 15/hr already.
UBI should fill in the gaps for the people who can't earn or won't earn. It shouldn't be a tax on america's businesses


No, UBI should also fill the gap for low wage earners as well and businesses should be taxed to fund that program. What sense would it make to tax workers to fund themselves?  :facepalm:  Obviously it's business that's making the higher margins by paying the lower wages, that's the money to tax.


So 100% of businesses are hiding revenue, regardless of their size (small, medium, large, mom and pop, sole-prop, gig worker, freelancer), 100% of the time, with no exceptions, which could go to paying more people?

Can you prove this?

It's almost like you're conflating the insane economically tyrannical influence mega corps have, and projecting that anger at and onto ALL businesses.


Companies pay taxes on profits and in this case large corporations could very well be supplementing employees working at small companies through UBI. How is that problematic?  What does that have to do with hiding financial performance?  I don't get it.

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: qman]
    #27198489 -

qman said:
Loaded Shaman said:
qman said:
bodhisatta said:
There's a good reason supermarkets, walmart, amazon, target, etc... All hire at 12+ an hour. They're lobbying for 15/hr. It just puts the small guys under. Anyone with a lick of skill can make 15/hr already.
UBI should fill in the gaps for the people who can't earn or won't earn. It shouldn't be a tax on america's businesses


No, UBI should also fill the gap for low wage earners as well and businesses should be taxed to fund that program. What sense would it make to tax workers to fund themselves?  :facepalm:  Obviously it's business that's making the higher margins by paying the lower wages, that's the money to tax.


So 100% of businesses are hiding revenue, regardless of their size (small, medium, large, mom and pop, sole-prop, gig worker, freelancer), 100% of the time, with no exceptions, which could go to paying more people?

Can you prove this?

It's almost like you're conflating the insane economically tyrannical influence mega corps have, and projecting that anger at and onto ALL businesses.


Companies pay taxes on profits and in this case large corporations could very well be supplementing employees working at small companies through UBI. How is that problematic?  What does that have to do with hiding financial performance?  I don't get it.


No no no that's not what I'm saying here, I don't disagree with ANY of what you said.

My beef is with people that are trying to argue 100% of businesses hiding money is the reason the economy is fucked.

That's an irrational premise and I actually feel like people think it's valid to a degree.

My argument is if it's ALL BUSINESSES (people say this term all the time), show me how 100% of businesses, with no exception are holding out cash that could better go to paying people.

You can't because not all businesses are the same size, revenue, cost/profit, etc.

That's my point lol.

Not arguing over increasing min wage arguing over people's broad-stroke assumption that ALL BUSINESSES ARE THE PROBLEM.

Large corps hiding cash? Without a doubt. Accusing mom and pop down the street of exact same behavior because they employ themselves, despite having like 1/1,000% of leverage and financial backing/security/resources as those groups? Not so much.


--------------------

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27198597 -

All the places that shut down because covid destroyed their day to day business. They must be lying because we all know they're sitting on stacks of hidden cash.

It's going to be awesome when your local bars are owned by amazon and they use them to spy on your habits and advertise to you.


--------------------
:whyyy:

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #27198632 -

if we hadn't shut down due to covid, the death toll would have been even more enormous than it already is, in the millions. millions of americans dead would have had an untold economic ramification anyways - as it is we're going to be feeling the effects of this for years and decades to come. we've already lost over half a million, considering the official death toll is at 470k and that's an underestimate by all accounts.

the whole thing would have been a non-issue if the trump administration had actually taken steps to stop this thing in it's tracks and people had stepped up to the challenge instead of resisting masking up and social distancing measures, but instead we got...this. and now we can't have nice things while other countries are having an almost return to normalcy long past while we're still struggling to regain our feet.

if america really cared about the small businesses, they would've actually taken covid seriously with social distancing and masking up, and this whole thing wouldve blown over in a couple months, because the virus would'nt have been able to effecively transmit en masse. instead we had people wearing masks under their nose, not wearing a mask, spitting in peoples faces, taking the mask down to talk (wut), crowding together for parties/spring break/thanksgiving/covidmas celebrations, and the list just goes on.

it's like america WANTS to kill itself.

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: Psion]
    #27198648 -

Nice off topic rant. That aside what did happen did. And it reveals how fragile most businesses finaces are


--------------------
:whyyy:

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