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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: Fiery]
    #27194021 -

Fiery said:
Excuse me .....241.20% face value. Copper has gone up.


So now- a penny is worth 2.4 cents.


That's a damn good investment.



Pretty soon America will do away with the cent- and maybe even nickles and dimes- and when that happens it will be legal to melt them down- and by that point, each one could be worth 5 cents each- who knows.


Pennies are easier to recover copper than nickles, too, because there is only 5% zinc to get rid of.



But even the zinc pennies are worth almost .007 cents in metal value because of the price of zinc.



The spot price for copper is pure copper. Copper alloys have a significantly lower value because of the cost involved in purifying the copper and the need for nearly pure copper in its most important industrial use as electrical conductors.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: koods]
    #27194022 -

There is no arbitraging because I am not selling the pennies thus there are no profits.

Only speculative investments.

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: Fiery]
    #27194055 -

Youre just collecting them to look at?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: koods]
    #27194075 -

Poor people like to do things that keep them poor. Like spending their efforts investing in a hobby that no one would call a good investment. Pennies as investment is a negative return unless you value your time at a negative rate. Just to exist I should be taxed for my bad ideas.


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:whyyy:

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: Fiery]
    #27194105 -

Fiery said:
Baby_Hitler said:
I've got $2500 I'd like to convert to pennies and nickels.



The problem with pennies is you have to sort them. There is a ryedale machine but it's like $300




I'm sure I could build one for less than that, if I thought it was worth my time. I have serious doubts of that, but if you have knowledge indicating otherwise, I'd be glad to hear it.

For that matter, I could build a machine that could tell the difference between a regular nickle and a really fancy one of some kind. I've dabbled in computer vision programming. I could write a program that could identify certain coins by sight, and sort them separately from less valuable coins. Probably sort them by electrical properties and/or weight first since that would be a lot faster.

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27194108 -

He should invent a machine that sorts copper pennies from zinc pennies and sell them to people like himself


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: koods]
    #27194113 -

Most of the people who got rich during the gold rush(es) were the ones selling shovels.

So I heard, anyway.

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #27194215 -

TheStallionMang said:
qman said:
Quote:
There's always going to be lazy and highly unmotivated people, but that's not really the discussion.



Actually, that is EXACTLY what we're talking about.  The most lazy and unmotivated people are generally going to end up being the lowest wage earners and this entire discussion is about the idea that those people need to be paid more.



Maybe you're just extremely misinformed about the US labor market because what you're stating doesn't make any sense at all.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minimum-wage-2019-almost-half-of-all-americans-work-in-low-wage-jobs/

Half of the US labor market is lazy and shouldn't have a livable wage.  :flowstone:

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: qman]
    #27194221 -

Nearly half of the people who voted voted for Trump. I mean it's not a stretch to think half of our workforce are useless.


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:whyyy:

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #27194248 -

bodhisatta said:
Nearly half of the people who voted voted for Trump. I mean it's not a stretch to think half of our workforce are useless.



That doesn't make any sense, if half of the US working class is useless, why does the US economy produce over $20 trillion in GDP per year?  Why are they producing so much wealth for the top 1%?  You see, they're very useful and cheap at the same time, that's the perfect formula for massive wealth creation for the very wealthy.

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: qman] * 1
    #27194279 -

Half the population is below average :elmo:


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27194294 -

bodhisatta said:
Nearly half of the people who voted voted for Trump. I mean it's not a stretch to think half of our workforce are useless.



:snoopyes:


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🐴:poop:
hpoo or die

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: split_by_nine]
    #27194319 -

That’s not fair. Trump supporters are good at jobs that stopped existing a generation ago, like coal mining, telephone operators and lynching negros


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: koods]
    #27194364 -

:wellhellothere:


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🐴:poop:
hpoo or die

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: bodhisatta] * 2
    #27194439 -

bodhisatta said:
Poor people like to do things that keep them poor. Like spending their efforts investing in a hobby that no one would call a good investment. Pennies as investment is a negative return unless you value your time at a negative rate. Just to exist I should be taxed for my bad ideas.



again with your statements that patently paint a broad and false brush against the poor. poor people don't have the MONEY to invest in expensive hobbies. they do cheap hobbies for fun. i do origami because paper is cheap and plentiful. i play video games because an online subscription to FFXIV is 12 bucks a month and lets me chat with people around the world and it's an awesome game with tons of entertainment value, while lots of steam games are a few bucks and offer dozens of hours of entertainment value, or even hundreds. heck, minecraft alone was probably the biggest return on entertainment value i've ever gotten. 20 bucks for thousands of hours played after all the modding? fuck ya.

and before you whine about how video games are terrible investment of time for a hobby, online games were what caused me to develop an ability to type 90~ WPM typing speed, learn the basics of coding fiddling with the Spellcast plugin for FFXI using lua, helped me become better at socializing in RL (including getting the courage to come out of the closet), kept me sane during these covid times, and have definitely introduced me to a lot of different cultural influences. not bad for a waste of time. especially seeing as how i had FUN while developing all that.

sure, i could've put that 12 bucks into stocks or something, but what would have that realistically gotten me? not much unless i seriously got lucky. but i might as well have been buying lotto tickets at that point with those kind of odds. the chances of my ROI on the stock market going from 120 bucks a year to 12000 or something instead of like... 130 after taxes is... not great, bod. for seeing decent returns, you first need a decent initial investment to start with. otherwise your bones are going to be dust before that nest eggs going to be a golden goose. the poor do not have that sort of gas. they have 2 bucks in their bank account and a starving belly, and a debate in their head on which bill not to pay this month.

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: Psion]
    #27194446 -

Maybe you don’t have the work ethic to sort pre-1982 pennies from post-1982 pennies.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: koods]
    #27194449 -

Maybe full-time employed folks don't have time for that but still struggle?


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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #27194488 -

TheStallionMang said:
Quote:
The most lazy and unmotivated people are generally going to end up being the lowest wage earners



qman said:
Quote:
Half of the US labor market is lazy and shouldn't have a livable wage.  :flowstone:



How did you take that from what I said?
The fact that the lazy/unmotivated end up making the least doesn't mean everyone on the bottom is lazy of unmotivated

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #27194514 -

43% of america makes less than 15$ an hour maybe?

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Re: Increasing minimum wage.. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #27194566 -

Baby_Hitler said:
Fiery said:
Baby_Hitler said:
I've got $2500 I'd like to convert to pennies and nickels.



The problem with pennies is you have to sort them. There is a ryedale machine but it's like $300




I'm sure I could build one for less than that, if I thought it was worth my time. I have serious doubts of that, but if you have knowledge indicating otherwise, I'd be glad to hear it.





Yeah, there are ways to build one for cheaper.

Also, you're going to have a hard time getting $2500 converted into nickel's and pennies all at once.

If you have a good relation with a bank maybe they will place that through a series of orders for you. But that's 555 pounds of nickles.


Quote:
Advantages to lower-value-per-pound assets
In fact, there are advantages to nickels weighing 22.2 pounds per $100 of value. Can a thief grab your box of nickels when you are carrying it to your car and run away with it? Folks, I’m 71, but if you take my 22.2-pound box of nickels, I’ll run your ass down because no one can run very fast carrying such an awkward, heavy object.

Actually, the same is true of a 27-pound half bag of junk silver. It’s worth about $6,500 today.

Not counterfeited or robbed
Another advantage of pennies and nickels compared to gold or silver is that they are not counterfeited and generally not robbed. Basically, there is not enough incentive to do either. Too much trouble for way too little money.

More convenient denomination for barter
Another virtue of the relatively low value per pound of nickels, that they are a relatively convenient denomination in a barter situation. The scenario where you benefit from your gold or silver or nickel is barter during a monetary crisis (inflation or deflation). They do not give change in barter markets. So a one-ounce gold coin that is worth $1,350 is a tough one to spend when you can’t get change. What’re you going to buy that you don’t care about change? Three big flat screen TVs?

In such a crisis, a roll of $2 of nickels would have the purchasing power that $2 does today. It’s pretty portable, albeit heavier than a $2 bill. Somewhat reminiscent of a pocketful of Australian 50¢ pieces. You would not want to get hit in the head with one of those. They weigh 15.5 grams each, which is a little over half an ounce. A U.S. half dollar weighs 12.5 grams.

$50,000 the size of a twin-size bed
Back to the $50,000 batch of nickels, that would be 500 $100 boxes. Total weight would be 11,100 pounds—five and a half tons. Total size would be, if laid end to end 500 x 9.25" = 4,625 inches or 4,625 ÷ 12 = 385 feet—a little longer than a football field plus its two end zones.

How about we stack the boxes five high? That means the footprint of the stack would be 100 boxes. 10 boxes long by ten deep or 92.5 " x 36.25" or 7.7 feet by 3 feet by 1 foot nine inches high, about the size of a twin bed and inner spring on the floor rather than elevated on legs.

Basement, garage, miniwarehouse
But you say it weighs five and a half tons. Yeah, and my car and my wife’s weigh four tons combined. So put the nickels in the basement or garage, not the attic. The standard maximum load you are supposed to put on a house floor is 40 pounds per square foot. That is a wooden floor that has air under it, not concrete.

If you put three boxes of nickels side by side with the 4" side against the floor, then add another box across the top of the three with its 3 " side against the floor, you will approximately cover one square foot. The weight of that one layer would be 4 x 22.2 pounds or 88.8 pounds per square foot. Too much. Five layers high as I described above would be 5 x 88.8 = 444 pounds per square foot.
.
So garage, basement, or miniwarehouse.

Was that so hard? And that’s $50,000 worth of nickels.

Uniquely attractive store of value
What is so great about nickels? They can go up in melt value during inflation. See Coinflation.com. But they cannot go down in value in deflation (depression) because the words “five cents” are engraved on them. Their value is alway five cents or the melt value, whichever is greater. You can always sell them back to a bank for what you paid for them.



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