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Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote
    #25821382 -

I ended up here looking for the Chinacat72 thread about the Thumbprint, and meanwhile stumbled on this article about a book called Heads by Jesse Jarnow. Anyone heard of this?

According to this guy, the thumbprint is real but not exactly what chinacat72 describes.. it wasn't an initiation into some "Grateful Dead Family" gang.

Here's a couple quotes from the article..

Quote:
If anyone was initiated into the Grateful Dead Family, it would be Karen Horning. Beyond her direct connection to the original LSD chemist, there's documented evidence -- a lengthy trial and incarceration -- to prove the depth of her involvement in the acid scene. Horning was even-tually caught in an undercover sting, arrested while selling an ounce of raw crystal to a single buyer. That's a quarter million hits of acid.

Horning is just one example of the many heavy hitters Jarnow interviewed for Heads. Yet none of the people corroborated the GDF story. Rather than discovering an organized and unified group of LSD mafiosio, Jarnow found just the opposite. "There was no one way that it worked," Jarnow told me. "It was this incredibly fluid, always changing system."

"It was just a bunch of people doing this in kind of loose configuration, informally con-nected in this sort of holistic way," Jarnow said. He described the process as cell-like, with fluid cliques of people moving in and around each other, and around Grateful Dead concerts.

..

Mega-doses, or what you might call a thumbprint, were in fact another loose practice. For those with surplus supply, dipping a finger -- a thumb even! -- into a bag of raw crystal was not uncommon. Amazingly, a few dealer cliques were not content with merely eating raw crystal, preferring to snort it instead. "But in terms of a formal [thumbprint] initiation," Jarnow told me, "everybody laughed when I asked about that."



Really interesting stuff.. maybe Heads is the real book we've all been looking for?

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: ozblizz]
    #25821815 -

going to read that

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: breeg89] * 6
    #25821977 -

I read another article a month or two ago with the same quotes.

Felt great to be confirmed what I always knew but couldn't say out loud without being attacked, that chinacat was a huge fucking liar.


--------------------
We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: Northerner]
    #25822219 -

Hmm.  Very interesting shit right here


--------------------
http://www.mushroomvideos.com/

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: Northerner]
    #25822826 -

Northerner said:
Felt great to be confirmed what I always knew but couldn't say out loud without being attacked, that chinacat was a huge fucking liar.



Maybe not a huge fucking liar, more like a teller of tall tales.. like the thumbprint is real, it just doesn't mean what he said it means.

And who knows.. maybe kids these days do thumbprints as "initiation" (cuz they all read about it online)  :laugh2:

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: ozblizz]
    #25822849 -

See what I mean? He's been outed as a bullshit artist and you're trying to protect his reputation even now.

A fabulous story teller of dubious merit, if you like. :lol: 

It was a great tale though as there wasn't anyone who could legitimately dispute it, until now. The dream is over.

Let's call a spade a fucking spade, to try not to detract from harsh realities.


--------------------
We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

Edited by Northerner (02/19/19 02:24 PM)

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: Northerner]
    #25823549 -

So just because someone wrote in a book that people laughed when he asked if thumbprint initiations happened, you know China cat was a ‘bullshit artist’?

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: mendocino_beano] * 3
    #25823566 -

ah yes, the og troller  :classictroll:


--------------------
~ I used to get high on life, until I realized life was cut with morons ~
* You need 2 wake up and smell the music! *
- We are all computer data in a materialistic world -
| Sometimes you have to lose yourself, to find anything |

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: mendocino_beano] * 1
    #25823910 -

mendocino_beano said:
So just because someone wrote in a book that people laughed when he asked if thumbprint initiations happened, you know China cat was a ‘bullshit artist’?



You clearly failed to understand the context. If there was no organization how could there have been an initiation?


--------------------
We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: mendocino_beano] * 4
    #25824018 -

mendocino_beano said:
So just because someone wrote in a book that people laughed when he asked if thumbprint initiations happened, you know China cat was a ‘bullshit artist’?



He's an outright fucking liar because no amount of LSD lasts for days. I don't have to eat milligrams of powder to know all LSD trips last a standard 8-12 hours and just get more intense. The fact people here still defend it is embarrassing.

Using terms like fluff and needlepoint too, it's cringey at best and disinformation  at worst.

Everything chinacat said was made up, all of it.

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: viraldrome] * 1
    #25824026 -

er, don't higher doses of psychedelics last longer? i thought a lot of drugs had a "half-life", as opposed to just having a set time based on metabolism. so while a dose of say, 10 grams shrooms dried vs 3 might last an hour or two longer, if you're taking a ridiculous amount of LSD compared to the usual dose, even with the amount halving repeatedly it's going to take a while to clear out.

as an example, lets say we have a drug that has a half life of 1 hour and a threshold effect of 10 mg. we take a dose of 100 mg and we get:

100
50
25
12.5

which gives you about 4 hours before the effect is gone.

then lets have another dose at 3 times that, of 300 mg

300
150
75
37.5
18.25

so a duration of almost 5 hours this way, at 3 times the dose.

now at 1,000,000 mg because someone is crazy and somehow this drug doesn't kill you at even high doses (compared to the effective dose anyways)

1,000,000
500,000
250,000
125,000
62,500
31,250
15,625
7,812.5
3906.25
1953.125
977 because i'm tired of decimals
488
244
122
61
31
15

which is almost 17 hours, over 3 times as long as a "heavy" dose of this theoretical drug with a half life of 1 hour.

so i could definitely see a massive dose of LSD lasting for days, considering the half life of LSD is estimated at around 5 hours, and a thumbprint of lsd is thousands of times the normal dose.

Edited by Psion (02/20/19 03:24 AM)

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: Psion]
    #25824101 -

4_aco_mike ate almost 10mg (I probably fkd up his username), and still only tripped for a night.

Edited by Northerner (02/20/19 05:24 AM)

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #25824121 -

Well, that would be 10000 micrograms, so after about 7 half lives it would be 78 ug. The half life of lsd is estimated at anywhere from 2.75 to 5 hours so that would be like 19 to 35 hours or so. It's going to vary based on individual metabolism. Also, if there was degradation or tolerance, the effective dose would be lower.

Assuming a thumbprint is 100 mg, there would be about 11 half lives before this went below 100ug,so that adds another 10 to 20 hours there or so.

Edited by Psion (02/20/19 05:40 AM)

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: viraldrome]
    #25824274 -

viraldrome said:
mendocino_beano said:
So just because someone wrote in a book that people laughed when he asked if thumbprint initiations happened, you know China cat was a ‘bullshit artist’?



He's an outright fucking liar because no amount of LSD lasts for days. I don't have to eat milligrams of powder to know all LSD trips last a standard 8-12 hours and just get more intense. The fact people here still defend it is embarrassing.

Using terms like fluff and needlepoint too, it's cringey at best and disinformation  at worst.

Everything chinacat said was made up, all of it.



Really? That’s your reasoning for being absolutely sure that he’s full of shit? What’s the highest dose of lsd you’ve done anyway?

Well first of all I completely disagree, and I’m not trying to defend chinacats claims at all, I simply have experienced higher dose LSD trips that lasted longer than 12 hours, more like 16-18 or more, and yes it was LSD. I’ve also experienced after effects that lasted days or up to a week. So I don’t think his claims about massive overdoses lasting a week and never fully leaving you are unrealistic at all. Occasionally  I still do feel the aftershocks of my most intense lsd trips and I do feel almost forever changed by them. It’s subtle but it’s there.

I think it’s funny the way the mention of this guys stories froths up all of the skeptics to call him a piece of shit like he molested children or something

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: Northerner]
    #25824416 -

Northerner said:
mendocino_beano said:
So just because someone wrote in a book that people laughed when he asked if thumbprint initiations happened, you know China cat was a ‘bullshit artist’?



You clearly failed to understand the context. If there was no organization how could there have been an initiation?



What are you talking about? Failed to understand the context? The quote form the book means nothing.

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: mendocino_beano] * 2
    #25824452 -

Whats funny is the quote talks about cliques, I can def see certain cliques possibly having an initiation of sorts. Just because the person interviewed may not have been involved in such a clique does not prove it did not happen. And couldn't care less if chinacat was making it up or not. :shrug: The book sounds interesting though.


--------------------
Man says, "God, show me and I will believe." God says, "Believe and I will show you."

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #25825042 -

mendocino_beano said:
Northerner said:
mendocino_beano said:
So just because someone wrote in a book that people laughed when he asked if thumbprint initiations happened, you know China cat was a ‘bullshit artist’?



You clearly failed to understand the context. If there was no organization how could there have been an initiation?



What are you talking about? Failed to understand the context? The quote form the book means nothing.



Read the article.

Aiko Aiko said:
Whats funny is the quote talks about cliques, I can def see certain cliques possibly having an initiation of sorts. Just because the person interviewed may not have been involved in such a clique does not prove it did not happen. And couldn't care less if chinacat was making it up or not. :shrug: The book sounds interesting though.



Does sound like a pretty cool book I reckon too. Would be hard to put down.


--------------------
We are the music makers, the dreamers of dreams.

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: Northerner]
    #25825165 -

The link doesn’t work

I read the original post and I have no idea what you’re talking about

Just because one guy who wrote a book about the scene saying there were no thumbprint initiations doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. This was a loosely knit and constantly evolving network and not everybody crossed each other’s paths or had any idea what others were up to. As you said, there was no organization, therefore there would be no standards or rules and nobody would be able to say with any certainty that something did or did not happen if they didn’t witness it, least of all you, who are you again?

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #25825172 -

Aiko Aiko said:
Whats funny is the quote talks about cliques, I can def see certain cliques possibly having an initiation of sorts. Just because the person interviewed may not have been involved in such a clique does not prove it did not happen. And couldn't care less if chinacat was making it up or not. :shrug: The book sounds interesting though.



That's what I'm thinking.. that chinacat may have described how a particular clique works

But at the same time, his clique was NOT the Grandfathers of it all. If anything, this woman Karen Horning, who was sentenced for selling an ounce of raw crystal, sounds like legit OG. and she didn't require her buyers do the thumbprint initiation thing.

So chincat saying "here's how you became an 1980s LSD OG" vs Karen horning saying, "um no, actually that wasn't how it worked".. I'm gonna go with Mrs Horning on this one.

as for what goes on today.. we don't know. But this book Heads seems to say pretty clearly what went on in the 1980s.. since it has interviews with a lot of people who did federal time for MAJOR LSD busts.

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Re: Thumbprint & the book Chinacat72 never wrote [Re: mendocino_beano]
    #25825176 -

mendocino_beano said:
The link doesn’t work




Oops. Fixed it.

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