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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Does global warming warrant giving the government more power?
    #25812096 -

Could the states handle it instead?

And if, at today's rate, our planet will be destroyed by global warming, what will we do about non-compliant countries in order to save the planet? Invade?


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TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (02/14/19 10:31 AM)

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL]
    #25812098 -

Where do you see the government gaining power? Or is this discussion a hypothetical one?


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: christopera]
    #25812101 -

In proposals like the green new deal.

And hypothetical.


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TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (02/14/19 10:35 AM)

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL]
    #25812143 -

Sounds like conspiracy theory.  It makes you appear paranoid.

Anything warrants the Government to have powers.  That is the idea they have.

I don't think anyone has a plan to solve it.  There are ideas.  They just don't have great vehicles that run on electric.  Plus updating infrastructure for something that appears less powerful is not popular.

Some industry such as farms do need these big diesel burning trucks.  Your average meth head does not.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #25812157 -

I think we should downsize the government. Hand it to the states.

What should we do about non-compliant countries who won't cut carbon?


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL]
    #25812170 -

XUL said:
In proposals like the green new deal.

And hypothetical.


I haven’t read any green new deal policy information. To my knowledge it’s just a vague series of proposals at this point but I could be wrong.

I think congress already has the power, constitutionally speaking. They would just be putting it to use.

It could give the government more power in the sense that congress is authorizing things it hasn’t done before. It could then be challenged in the courts. If the courts rule that congress has the power, then they would officially have it.

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL]
    #25812183 -

XUL said:
I think we should downsize the government. Hand it to the states.

What should we do about non-compliant countries who won't cut carbon?



There would be a civil war without federal moderation of interstate conflicts and crimes.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: Skellies]
    #25812186 -

Would you like to see more or less government power?

What would we do about non-compliant countries? If AOC is talking 10-12 years before no return for the globe, shouldn't we do something about them too?


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL]
    #25812191 -

We would subvert non-complying nations and people into seeing the truth and the light.

I think rations are the way to go.

In world war 2 they had rations on everything.  My Dad still had some ration stamps.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: Morel Guy] * 2
    #25812202 -

Leaving it up to the states (which are governments too by the way) means that absolutely no progress will happen in red states, and since climate change doesn’t acknowledge borders, it renders the progress made in other states/countries useless.


Saltwater fish will be extinct in 20 years but that’s fine so long as the gubmint doesn’t tell me to stop heating my house with diesel fuel.


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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25812208 -

Do you really heat your house with diesel?  That would be very expensive.

Mine is a natural gas boiler. It's difficult to ration heating and cooling but the prices are fixed and unstable for the long run.

Also the world market effects what we can or cannot do.  It's overwhelming to understand.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25812214 -

The Ecstatic said:
Leaving it up to the states (which are governments too by the way) means that absolutely no progress will happen in red states, and since climate change doesn’t acknowledge borders, it renders the progress made in other states/countries useless.


Saltwater fish will be extinct in 20 years but that’s fine so long as the gubmint doesn’t tell me to stop heating my house with diesel fuel.



With that said, you are pretty much making the case that, if the entire world doesn't get on board, it will be bad?

What do you do with non-compliant countries? Will we invade?


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL]
    #25812218 -

China would rebel within their own society (all of Asia) if they didn't have petrol.

They run around all over the place burning fuels.  That's why their military is trying to dominate the south China sea oil patch.  There is also a lot of natural gas there, so they will need a pipeline.

Militarily the world is in bad shape.  People want to rebel and not give forth any good ideas.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: Morel Guy]
    #25812241 -

Climate change/global warming is the perfect excuse for The Elite to implement policies that enhance their power at the expense of the peasants.

For some strange reason, liberals fully endorse this abuse of power believing they're going to save the world. Talk about stupidity.

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: qman]
    #25812251 -

I agree.

Further, it seems like it could be used as an excuse to go to war.

"The planet will end if we don't stop Carbon Output. North Korea isn't complying. War!"


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25812260 -

I don't believe for a second, that either of you have a grasp of the situation as much as you wage war.


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"in sterquiliniis invenitur in stercore invenitur"

In filth it will be found in dung it will be found

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL]
    #25812277 -

XUL said:
I agree.

Further, it seems like it could be used as an excuse to go to war.

"The planet will end if we don't stop Carbon Output. North Korea isn't complying. War!"


It's a convenient excuse for The Elite to implement almost any policy and the religious fanatics that want to save the Earth buy into it every time.

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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL] * 2
    #25812306 -

XUL said:
The Ecstatic said:
Leaving it up to the states (which are governments too by the way) means that absolutely no progress will happen in red states, and since climate change doesn’t acknowledge borders, it renders the progress made in other states/countries useless.


Saltwater fish will be extinct in 20 years but that’s fine so long as the gubmint doesn’t tell me to stop heating my house with diesel fuel.



With that said, you are pretty much making the case that, if the entire world doesn't get on board, it will be bad?

What do you do with non-compliant countries? Will we invade?



“The entire world” isn’t causing climate change, though. The richest 10% are responsible for HALF of all carbon emissions.  The rich deliberately push this “we all need to buy hybrids and stop using straws” to make it seem like the average person is culpable for the necessary changes. Stop believing them.


Either way, the United States is the only industrialized nation who can’t even sign on to the totally impotent Paris Accords. Trump is rolling back out already lax environmental safeguards. We’re opening Alaska to oil drilling, expanding fracking. The US military is the biggest polluter in the world, by far. If anyone needs invaded in order to save the ecosystem of the planet, it’s us.


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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: qman] * 2
    #25812308 -

If the government isn't the structure to implement green policies then who is? The energy industry that has suppressed all green technologies that it can and pollutes at every chance to increase profitability?

I don't see another option other then the government stepping in,  unfortunately it's 70 years too late. 

Ecosystems are collapsing all across the world,  insect populations are being decimated, our food sources are being more and more homogenized. Eventually the camels back won't take anymore. 

Luckily the powerful will have the money to sustain their lifestyle and us poor folk can deal with the fallout.


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Re: Does global warming warrant giving the government more power? [Re: XUL] * 1
    #25812312 -

XUL said:
Would you like to see more or less government power?

What would we do about non-compliant countries? If AOC is talking 10-12 years before no return for the globe, shouldn't we do something about them too?


I wouldn’t mind public projects to modernize out infrastructure. I think most of our efforts should be directed at mitigation and preparing for the consequences. It would be great to see international agreements, but I’m not sure global economic cooperation is really feasible.

For example: the CCP buys political legitimacy wth economic growth. It’s authoritarian but the average person feels like they have more opportunity then their parents/grandparents did under Mao. Now that the economy’s slowing, they have to lean more on nationalism but they still value growth.

It would take a lot of investment into other countries for them to willingly change, which isn’t popular.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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