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General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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Is honour on the decline? * 1
    #25677206 -

Compared to perhaps; 50, 100 or 500 years ago?

It seems to me like it is in my lifetime alone, but that could be pure cynicism and confirmation bias, so I wondered what you chaps thought.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25677344 -

That's my feeling as well, although it's difficult to say exactly since I can't remember what things were like 100 years ago. However, I've read that in Hindu theology the world is believed to go through cycles, the initial of which are high in honor, virtue and spirituality which are then followed by cycles of corruption and moral degradation. Some say we are currently in Kali Yuga which is the period of greatest darkness and corruption.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #25677456 -

I'm not sure on average humans were ever really honorable so I lean towards confirmation bias, but they say hardship brings out the best and worst in people. That would suggest on average people in the modern world are soft and mediocre. The sum still adds up to zero using fuzzy math.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #25677590 -

I don't know about honor, but the intelligence level of the general populace has dropped sharply in the last 200 years, steadily, and this decline continues. How do I know this? I read a lot, and nothing could be more obvious to one who does. Look at the writings of Thomas Jefferson or James Madison. Then look at newspapers from the turn of the 20th century. Then look at popular fiction in the 2000s. Then look at a tweet by Donald Trump. There's no denying it. Whether this phenomenon of decadence can be tied into concepts of honor, I don't know.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: Peyote Road]
    #25677616 -

Yeah but Kali Yuga was supposed to have started like 6k years ago


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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25677969 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
Compared to perhaps; 50, 100 or 500 years ago?

It seems to me like it is in my lifetime alone, but that could be pure cynicism and confirmation bias, so I wondered what you chaps thought.


No I wouldn't say so, but it might be that honour is felt for things that were not viewed in such a way before.

I'm sure she feels honour too.


In a way maybe honour took a wrong turn somewhere on the track.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 3
    #25678190 -

DividedQuantum said:
I don't know about honor, but the intelligence level of the general populace has dropped sharply in the last 200 years, steadily, and this decline continues. How do I know this? I read a lot, and nothing could be more obvious to one who does. Look at the writings of Thomas Jefferson or James Madison. Then look at newspapers from the turn of the 20th century. Then look at popular fiction in the 2000s. Then look at a tweet by Donald Trump. There's no denying it. Whether this phenomenon of decadence can be tied into concepts of honor, I don't know.


A much smaller percentage of the population was literate 200 years ago. Once the government mandated everyone should read and write the press started to dumb it down and literacy standards began to drop. Humans aren't less intelligent. There are just more unintelligent people reading.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love     truth awareness peace I am      I feel      I do     I love  I speak    I see    I know

why there is reality and patterned, law-like consistency at all, rather than noise or non-reality is not a question physics answers. It's a question physics presupposes an answer to in order to provide other answers.

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: Rahz]
    #25678217 -

dyslexia?

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: Rahz]
    #25678597 -

Rahz said:
DividedQuantum said:
I don't know about honor, but the intelligence level of the general populace has dropped sharply in the last 200 years, steadily, and this decline continues. How do I know this? I read a lot, and nothing could be more obvious to one who does. Look at the writings of Thomas Jefferson or James Madison. Then look at newspapers from the turn of the 20th century. Then look at popular fiction in the 2000s. Then look at a tweet by Donald Trump. There's no denying it. Whether this phenomenon of decadence can be tied into concepts of honor, I don't know.


A much smaller percentage of the population was literate 200 years ago. Once the government mandated everyone should read and write the press started to dumb it down and literacy standards began to drop. Humans aren't less intelligent. There are just more unintelligent people reading.



You raise a good point, but I don't think the decline in writing quality over time can be solely attributed to "dumbing down," as it reflects as much upon the intelligence of the writer as the sophistication of a mass audience. I wasn't only referring to journalism. The best writing, by the best writers, has clearly grown steadily less sophisticated. I agree that literacy rates are part of the equation, but I think it's clear there's a real, negative trend there.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #25678737 -

'Honor' doesn't seem all positive as implied, because
A lot of silly duels were fought,
resulting in many deaths.

Now those who lack self respect
make a big deal if others 'disrespect' them.

However in more general terms,
it would seem there was next to no corruption at the hunter-gatherer stage.

Once we get to lobbyists, we have institutionalized corruption in a 'democracy' in the USA. Then corporations get the rights of individuals. Then credit card debt is invented. Then Political correctness comes into play. This is in the modern world. The overall decline in values, would suggest it is a continuing process, and you may be right that you have seen some more offensive examples recently.

Prior to this the catholic church sold indulgences hundreds of years earlier, resulting in the protestant reformation.  So we see these problems prior to modern times.
But today it continues & now catholics abuse children, and the Vatican pretty much ignores it.

Jumping ahead, (without adding more examples)...

So it seems there has been a decline in quality of life,  in the non physical realm, since humans established settlements, increased population density, lived in social hierarchies, accumulated goods, and then all the apparatus of government & civilization. (with endless possibilities for corruption, plotting, double dealing, and betrayal)

I suppose one could write a whole essay on this, and probably whole books have been written on the subject.

Incidentally of course modern life has all sorts of negativities, like horror films, war video games etc. that might lead one to think things are getting worse till we remember, in the past, beheadings & hangings were public, stocks in the town square, whipping of slaves, the gladiators, ...etc....of course this doesn't relate directly to 'honor' - but it does seem to relate to insensitivity, coarseness, crudeness, and cruelty - which are certainly not noble qualities.

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: laughingdog]
    #25679387 -

laughingdog said:
Once we get to lobbyists, we have institutionalized corruption in a 'democracy' in the USA.


The Labour party here in the UK have recently adopted a policy of 'constructive ambiguity'. Same shit, different words. It always has and will be, in the upper echelons, I suppose.

I refer more, in OP, to the honour of the common man, than the honour of the system.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25710263 -

The people I interact with seem to lack honour and it is rare to find people that value honourable deeds. That is probably just my experiences so I can not put a straight answer towards this.


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Spartacus is my dad and Spartacus is my mom?

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: doomstershroomster]
    #25714386 -

I think we need a more solid definition than just 'honor of the common man'. What does that really mean or entail? Honor is such a broad concept, that it can be on the decline and on the up and up at the same time until we define which kind of honor we are speaking from.

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: yeah]
    #25715710 -

yeah said:
Yeah but Kali Yuga was supposed to have started like 6k years ago


things are always darkest before the dawn. the iron age is a bitch.

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25716662 -

currently watching the video below. i fully agree with you, the social cohesion of our society has fallen apart. we are living in an epidemic of narcissism/individuality. social cohesion is inversely proportional to the size of the tribe/community. the green book by muammar gaddafi is a very interesting read as well. i have a long list of books if anyone is interested :smile:


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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 2
    #25743800 -

Jokeshopbeard said:
Compared to perhaps; 50, 100 or 500 years ago?

It seems to me like it is in my lifetime alone, but that could be pure cynicism and confirmation bias, so I wondered what you chaps thought.


It is verrry simple, but nobody seemed to say it in the answers:
Hono(u)r comes from honesty. It was ever like that and now you can start thinking why it is on the decline.
A nice reference (movie) is Shakespear "Much to do about nothing". The princes are those who try to be as honest as possible and all the simple folks honour them for that. Shakespear showed this very well in this novel. The movie is great as well.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #25743879 -

Shakespeare used the influence of his knowledge on the psychological "humors" for a reason.

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #25743950 -

Oh yes. I guess he was a master in putting all those contradicting sights in this masterpiece to get the attention it deserved those times. And it is true, in case of honour and honesty, until today, but the internal knowledge is forgotten to the mainstream.

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: BlueCoyote] * 1
    #25744245 -

until it is too late, and confusion dawns on them.

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Re: Is honour on the decline? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #25744251 -

Highest. Highly

Who's the better killer.

Lets play gets diabolically better


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Edited by cherylScott (01/14/19 06:43 PM)

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