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which to trust?
    #25512420 -

I've had a problem with green mold for months and although im doing Agar, using gloves in ever situation and even a Tyvek suit to make sure im extra "sterile" I still get contams.

2 days ago I thew and old school Thermometer in and am now seeing this... I have another Digital one going (so 2 at a time always) and they're only about 1 to 2 degrees off from each other. so who's correct here?  what do you guys trust?

getting my contams under control would be amazing so any insight or help im throughly greatlyful for.
cheers.


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Re: which to trust? [Re: 10kVisions]
    #25512445 -

Which tek are you following? Contams in your jars, bags, tubs or in your agar? Upload pictures here.


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If you can improve everyday, today is the best you've ever been and the worst you'll ever be.

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Re: which to trust? [Re: Cody2C]
    #25512493 -

neither thermometer is correct, what temps are you trying to read anyway?
digital is generally very reliable at reading 25 and 50 celcius because those are the beta parameter values or steinhart equation values.
outside of that, i really couldnt say, could be right, could be wrong. No thermometer is perfectly right though and unless your spending hundreds, dealing with even +/-3 degrees tolerance is something youll have to accept.

also gloves arent as important as , i asume, how you work and move in the SAB
i pulled off many agar pourings/ general culture work barehanded, no sleeves, gloves, and only soapy water wetting my SAB (though soapy water really is all you need anyway)

by the way, is your SAB walls all wet when you work? i constantly had green mold problems before i realized the SAB is meant to be wet.

Also are your gloves attached to the box? if so, big no-no.

Lastly, is your lid making an air tight seal? like, does it have a gasket? if not flip your SAB, the bottom of a tub makes a safer ceiling.

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Re: which to trust? [Re: DrMushroom]
    #25512729 -

Tyvek suit?

Are you using a SAB?

I work a dry SAB bare-handed: load it, wait 10 minutes,  elevate your work and don't expose receiving media any longer than necessary, being sure to use slow and steady movement, and avoid placing anymore of your tools or self over receiving media than needed to git r dun!


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🍄💚😎

Ask Caps! (My Q&A Thread)
Caps' Comprehensive Cultivation Tek List

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Re: which to trust? [Re: 10kVisions]
    #25512733 -

Not enough info.  When are you getting contams?  Petri dish stage?  Grain stage?  Fruiting stage?

As for your thermo, yeah, those ones you get at the store are not always very accurate usually. 

Did you know that if you prepare a quantity of ice water...that is...a bowl of water with a lot of ice cubes floating in it, it will be EXACTLY freezing temperature.  0 in Celsius and 32 in F.

You may be able to get an idea of most accurate thermo that way.


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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Re: which to trust? [Re: VroomerMcZoomers]
    #25514498 -

ok sorry for the vague post...

Agar tek using small jars (ball brand mini jars) from Walmart with plastic lids

1 drop from syringe (yes im sterilizing with flame etc) inside a SAB using gloves and wearing a tyvek suit to make sure arms etc aren't bringing in contams to SAB.

2. let 20 or so jars sit for x days till I see nice white fluff and or contams... discard contaminated jars and transfer good spawn to new agar jars inside SAB.

3. let jars sit again till entire bottom of new agar jars is white and then prepare birdseed jars....

Unmodified Mono tub / birdseed Tek

1. I clean (thoroughly with bleach then alcohol and water) buckets and mix my coir brick / verm in them and let sit till room temp.

2. soak bird seed about 12/14 hours and rinse anywhere between 3 and 5 times till the water is clear.

3.  pressure cook 2.5 hours at 15psi (im at 10k feet)

4. take agar and cut out pieces (4 per agar jar) and transfer into Grain jars inside SAB.

5. wait

6. discard any contam G2G jars (this is where I get frustrated)

7. after all contam jars are gone transfer "good" jars into unmodified mono tubs. (yes thoroughly cleaned and sterilized with bleach then alcohol and water)

8. sit and wait.

9. start throwing away Mono tubs as they become bad

10. hope I get 1 or 2 out of 6 to be good.

11. get one flush from the 1 or 2 good and then watch them get contams as well.
In every situation im wearing gloves, most im wearing a Tyvek suit as well simply to make sure im as sterile as I can possibly be in this situation.

my thing is at my old place I use to get really great grows... record was 12 tubs at 4 flushes each (not bragging).  since moving to the new house, the room im using was built (by me) and setup specifically for this.  Im now doing the process even cleaner (so I thought) than I was before and being even more anal about making sure every step is as good and as sterile as I can make it.
this is why I think my temps are the issue...

please, enlighten me though. im 100% on board with trying whatever I need to try to narrow down my issues here.
thanks in advance everyone.


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Re: which to trust? [Re: 10kVisions]
    #25514533 -

When it comes to inoculation of your agar, Id drop the number of dishes you run initially to 3 or so. Streak them instead of putting a single drop in the center of the plate. Run a second transfer before inoculating grain and take your first two transfers as soon as possible. Barring technique issues I'm guessing this will help out significantly. If this has no impact I would say it's safe to assume you have a grain issue(could be in your prep-least likely or the setup of your jars[how's your ge facilitated])

My money is on contams being present in your agar given the low number of jars making it through colonization.

Do you keep the jars you take your agar transfer from around? Do they contam out?

Edit: that's two transfers at minimum. 3 or more is not a bad standard practice

Edited by Psilo_citizen (10/05/18 12:10 PM)

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Re: which to trust? [Re: Psilo_citizen]
    #25514609 -

Overkill IMO...  As stated, I work a dry SAB with bare hands kept wet with 70% iso, in my work clothes... I'd assume (dangerous territory)  that it's in your plates as well...


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🍄💚😎

Ask Caps! (My Q&A Thread)
Caps' Comprehensive Cultivation Tek List

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Re: which to trust? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25515508 -

you dont do any flames inside the SAB do you? because thats a big no-no. for one, lighters are filthy and the flame sucks air through the metal guard, especially jet lighters. Could be the source of your troubles

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Re: which to trust? [Re: 10kVisions]
    #25515612 -

Pictures would help a lot. A lot of times more sets of eyes will pic up things others miss.


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-The heaviest thing one will ever carry is a thought-
-"Like a Blind man In an orgy you gotta feel things out.".-
-When we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality".-
-If you defy authority because your told to, that's no better than blindly trusting authority.-

psychonautwiki.org

How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE
BOD's Easy AF OAT prep tek.
Principles of mushroom growing for beginners

Edited by R.I.P.Zappa (10/05/18 06:53 PM)

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Re: which to trust? [Re: R.I.P.Zappa]
    #25515619 -

R.I.P.Zappa said:
Pictures would help a lot. A lot of times more sets of eyes will pic up things others miss.


:snoopyes:


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🍄💚😎

Ask Caps! (My Q&A Thread)
Caps' Comprehensive Cultivation Tek List

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Re: which to trust? [Re: Caps McGee]
    #25549850 -

OK cool.  thanks everyone for the advice.  I just ordered new Syringes so when they get here I'll do a full photo documentation of the process im doing from start to finish.
appreciate the feed back!
Cheers


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Re: which to trust? [Re: DrMushroom]
    #25549858 -

DrMushroom said:
you dont do any flames inside the SAB do you? because thats a big no-no. for one, lighters are filthy and the flame sucks air through the metal guard, especially jet lighters. Could be the source of your troubles


no, I don't use a lighter in the SAB. Honestly I never did it cause it was to much of a pain in the Ass lol. So I guess I was doing it "right" all along! haha! 
thanks


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Re: which to trust? [Re: 10kVisions]
    #25550120 -

1 more question.  how important is it to rinse the bird seed mid way though the soak or even 2 times though?  I was just thinking about the fact that I've been soaking my seed about 12 hours but I never rinse it till the ver end of the soak... that would (I imagine) make all the see soak up that dirty water all night.  correct?  im thinking this could actually be the basis to my issues as of late...
LMK your thoughts!
CHEERS!


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Re: which to trust? [Re: 10kVisions]
    #25550205 -

You need to do one of two things: Adjust your PC to operate at 19.6 PSI, or run your sterilization cycle for 3.4 times longer.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25530374

At 10k feet, with your PC reading 15 PSI, your interior temperature is only at 115 C/240 F. This is too little. In effect, you're running your PC for an equivalent 35 minutues - assuming a 2 hour run.

I have also had major issues with trich. I was aiming for a TC badge (Trich Cultivator) when I realized my sterilization cycle is waay to short for my altitude - 6k feet. For most things, the PC cycle was ok, but grains were the source of my contamination, and I'm betting yours too.


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Re: which to trust? [Re: teladi]
    #25550233 -

Mold should be easily killed before sterilization temperature is even reached. Your only contamination issues should be bacteria from cooking too short or with too little pressure or both


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Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread

5g a day keeps the 5g away

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Re: which to trust? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #25550239 -

Would bacterial contamination make the myc more susceptible to trich?


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Re: which to trust? [Re: teladi] * 1
    #25550281 -

Yes. Once spawned


--------------------
Everything you need in one spot.

My Q&A thread. Ask me questions here rather than in Private Message
Bod's chat thread

5g a day keeps the 5g away

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Re: which to trust? [Re: teladi]
    #25550549 -

teladi said:
You need to do one of two things: Adjust your PC to operate at 19.6 PSI, or run your sterilization cycle for 3.4 times longer.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25530374

At 10k feet, with your PC reading 15 PSI, your interior temperature is only at 115 C/240 F. This is too little. In effect, you're running your PC for an equivalent 35 minutes - assuming a 2 hour run.

I have also had major issues with trich. I was aiming for a TC badge (Trich Cultivator) when I realized my sterilization cycle is way to short for my altitude - 6k feet. For most things, the PC cycle was ok, but grains were the source of my contamination, and I'm betting yours too.


so I was looking over your chart and I honestly couldn't make sense of how to figure it out.  you say "To use, look up your altitude, and multiply your sterilization time by the time multiplier" but on the chart there's just altitude and operating temp.  I don't see any "sterilization time".  the part that makes no sense to me is what If someone only runs PC for 1 hour vs me who runs 2.5 Hours?  the "your sterilization time" is going to be differently for everyone so how do you come up with a consistent measurement from that chart?  im guessing im missing something.  but I'll do the math...

so im sterilizing at 15psi for 2.5 hours.

2.5hr x 3.39 = 8.475
by that math I have to cook for 8 hours?

OR

15 psi x 3.39 = 50.85
and thats no way correct cause its either an hour or 50 hours...

OR

115.7 (operating temp) x 3.39 = 392.223 (I assume minutes) which would be 6.5 hours

the last one makes the most sense to me but man 6.5 hours?  thats intense... I have a friend at 8000 ft who cooks at 15psi for 2 Horus and grows 15 tubs at a time almost flawlessly... so this is where I get confused.  why would he be fine with 2 hours and I would have to go 6.5?


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Re: which to trust? [Re: 10kVisions]
    #25550619 -

Are you on mobile? The image may not be displaying correctly. Direct links:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/images/latex/9e2f1710a98be885dd610daffe896c5a.png

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/images/latex/f40ff81d485bd18ae474321846703505.png

Your operating temperature of your PC at 15 PSI is 115C. If you don't want to increase pressure, you have to increase time. Multiply time in minutes or hours by 3.39 to get the equivalent. 2.5 hours * 3.39 = 8.5 hours or 2 hours * 3.39 = 6.79 hours. Either is a hell of a long time. Unfortunately at your altitude, you have to adjust something. Can you not increase your operating pressure? Or perhaps try various increments of operating times, increasing half an hour at a time? Smaller bulk containers like shoeboxes will help evaluate the latter.

Are you guys using the same substrate sources? Maybe what you and I buy are just dirtier than what others buy, and combined with high altitude, increases the likelihood of bad stuff surviving sterilization.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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