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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: Enlil]
    #24959461 -

Enlil said:
Not so much.  Choose any black man off the street.  You can't tell by his race whether he's rich, poor, honest, dishonest, smart, stupid, responsible, shiftless, violent, peaceful, Christian, muslim, atheist, hard-working, lazy, ambitious, friendly, angry, funny, good at sports, fond of watermelon, a good dancer, or a good tipper.

So, other than skin color, what do you know about that black man based solely on his race?


I wasn't talking about character, I was referring to genetic and biological factors.

You're suggesting that skin color is the only biological difference, I'm suggesting that skin color and other biological factors are at work here.

You do realize when population groups are in completely different environments for tens of thousands of years, that they end up evolving traits that help them survive in that environment?  And those traits are NOT just skin color?

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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: qman]
    #24959463 -

That's fine...so name something you can tell solely by race other than skin color and eye shape.  I'm waiting with baited breath.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #24959465 -

shivas.wisdom said:
Sure, but there's no reason to assume that without evidence. Do you have any evidence?


So there's no genetic or biological differences between the "races" beyond skin color?

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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: Enlil]
    #24959469 -

Enlil said:
That's fine...so name something you can tell solely by race other than skin color and eye shape.  I'm waiting with baited breath.


Again, why are you trying to make this a "pure" race issue?  There are no absolutes here, is that your only argument?

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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: qman] * 2
    #24959473 -

So, you can't think of a single thing other than skin color or eye shape that you can tell about an individual based solely on his/her race?

That's what makes classification based on skin color totally arbitrary.  We could literally have drawn racial lines based on height, and it would be no more or less capricious than how we draw racial lines today.  In other words, race, as a classification in humans, is meaningless and irrational.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: qman] * 2
    #24959540 -

qman said:
shivas.wisdom said:
Sure, but there's no reason to assume that without evidence. Do you have any evidence?


So there's no genetic or biological differences between the "races" beyond skin color?


I said it's possible, but without supporting evidence there is no reason to make such an assumption. So I'll ask again, do you have any evidence?


qman said:
You do realize when population groups are in completely different environments for tens of thousands of years, that they end up evolving traits that help them survive in that environment?  And those traits are NOT just skin color?


You do realize that no population group (even remote Pacific islanders) is completely isolated? Sharing of genes is something humans are very good at (yeah I'm talking about doing sex).


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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: Enlil]
    #24959545 -

I think genetics are the basis of our social constructs. Therefore, when talking about white privilege, I think it is relevant to question the status for people with mixed parents. As compared to a complete black boy's parents, do parents with only one white party enable more resources to be allocated to their child due to white privilege? Further, does the genetic phenotype of the biracial boy give him more privilege than that of a complete black boy?

These are the questions.


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TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (02/01/18 02:21 PM)

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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: XUL]
    #24959558 -

shivas.wisdom said:
XUL said:
I think genetics are the basis of our social constructs.


We didn't even know about genetics until Mendel in 1860ish. How exactly did it form the basis of our construct of race, if no one even knew what the frig genes even were?


You don't have to be a geneticist to ascertain that two different colored parents make a mixed colored child.


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TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (02/01/18 02:25 PM)

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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: XUL] * 2
    #24959559 -

The whiter the skin, generally the more the privilege.  It's all about perception.  Genetics are just one factor in skin color, anyway. 


Even among blacks, the lighter skinned blacks look down upon the darker skinned blacks.  Spaniards look down upon Mexicans.  Mexicans look down upon Dominicans.  Dominicans look down upon Africans.

That's all perception.  If you are pale white, you'll be treated differently than you would if you tanned yourself to a golden brown.  No genetic testing needed.  Obama was called the "first black president" but his mom was pure white and his father wasn't even around to raise him.  Why?  Because any amount of black is a stain upon his whiteness. 

None of this should be new to you, unless you haven't been paying attention.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: Enlil]
    #24959567 -

Quote:
his mom was pure white and his father wasn't even around to raise him.  Why?  Because any amount of black is a stain upon his whiteness.


If his mother was there, then I suppose there could have been a different outcome due to white privilege.

At this point, black is not a stain. The new wave proclaimed white to be a stain -- or a privilege.

It's sort of a paradox. Should one attempt to attain more white for the privilege or should they attempt to avoid it?

What kind of message is the theory of white privilege sending to people?

It seems absurd to me.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: XUL] * 3
    #24959576 -

The message is that white people should be aware of it so that they don't feel slighted when they don't get special privileges....and so that they can hopefully do a bit to end the privilege, although I suspect that will take generations to happen.

Why is it absurd to examine flaws within our culture?


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: Enlil]
    #24959581 -

It's not absurd I suppose.

I just think using the term white privilege is misleading and confusing for the reasons I stated.

Sorry for yelling at you.

Nothing wrong with a little heat from time to time. Tis' the spirit of debate!

:mushroom2:


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: XUL]
    #24959587 -

Would you prefer "Pigment Punishment?"


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: Enlil]
    #24959595 -

Enlil said:
Would you prefer "Pigment Punishment?"


Absolutely.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: XUL] * 1
    #24959646 -

XUL said:
ballsalsa said:
If, in aggregate, whiter people are generally treated more fairly at the expense of (pick an ethnic group), that is white privilege.



Keyword: "If."


Exactly, and you asked for proof if white people are generally treated more fairly, and Enlil provided it to you.

XUL said:
You showed one study about job call backs that is not reliable. Why? qman showed another study that showed the opposite outcome.


And I'll repeat for you in case you missed my reply.

THERE WERE NO 'FLAWS' IN THE ORIGINAL EXPERIMENT, nor did qman's article say there were.  The difference in the two experiments is that the first used black sounding first names like Jamal and Rasheed, and the second used common black last names like Washington and Jefferson which are also common white names.

In summary, there is a bias when people's perception is that a person is black, but the bias goes away when they're not sure (Washington and Jefforson are also common white names).

XUL said:
No, you haven't proven that white privilege exists. You can keep claiming that it exists, but you haven't proven it to me, which is what I think you are trying to do.


Again, the first study showed with >99.9% certainty that people with black sounding first names get fewer call backs.  How is that not proof that whites are treated more favorably?


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: XUL]
    #24959999 -

XUL said:
Quote:
his mom was pure white and his father wasn't even around to raise him.  Why?  Because any amount of black is a stain upon his whiteness.


If his mother was there, then I suppose there could have been a different outcome due to white privilege.

At this point, black is not a stain. The new wave proclaimed white to be a stain -- or a privilege.

It's sort of a paradox. Should one attempt to attain more white for the privilege or should they attempt to avoid it?

What kind of message is the theory of white privilege sending to people?

It seems absurd to me.


I was starting to think you weren't really taking this seriously. Now it seems like you are being more thoughtful than I was perceiving you to be.

In a way it is absurd. I wish I could remember where I heard it, but someone made a statement to the effect of, "White Privilege is a problem and we need to find ways to promote others to succeed. But the last thing a black person should be thinking as an individual is how do I get a handout or reparation. It is in the best interest of a black person as an individual to have a clear perspective of the opportunities available and the confidence, determination and education to take advantage of those opportunities."

I think there is a lot of truth to this. Any attempts to improve the situation should be done in a way that doesn't build resentment and that affects culture in a way that encourages individuals to succeed.

I think Obama is good evidence that wealth and culture can be bigger factors than appearance. His unique upbringing and educational experience helped him become who he is. He basically grew up as an international scholar. He learned how to be comfortable with broad range of people and cultures, be accademically successful and confident, be professionally successful, and speak in way that was accepted the mass culture.

Take him as a baby and put him in a crack house in the ghetto. You probably get a different result.


--------------------


"Rape ... Is a... can of apples" -Fiery

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Re: White privilege for mixed parents? [Re: Thundermuscle75]
    #24960399 -

Thundermuscle75 said:
XUL said:
Quote:
his mom was pure white and his father wasn't even around to raise him.  Why?  Because any amount of black is a stain upon his whiteness.


If his mother was there, then I suppose there could have been a different outcome due to white privilege.

At this point, black is not a stain. The new wave proclaimed white to be a stain -- or a privilege.

It's sort of a paradox. Should one attempt to attain more white for the privilege or should they attempt to avoid it?

What kind of message is the theory of white privilege sending to people?

It seems absurd to me.


I was starting to think you weren't really taking this seriously. Now it seems like you are being more thoughtful than I was perceiving you to be.

In a way it is absurd. I wish I could remember where I heard it, but someone made a statement to the effect of, "White Privilege is a problem and we need to find ways to promote others to succeed. But the last thing a black person should be thinking as an individual is how do I get a handout or reparation. It is in the best interest of a black person as an individual to have a clear perspective of the opportunities available and the confidence, determination and education to take advantage of those opportunities."

I think there is a lot of truth to this. Any attempts to improve the situation should be done in a way that doesn't build resentment and that affects culture in a way that encourages individuals to succeed.

I think Obama is good evidence that wealth and culture can be bigger factors than appearance. His unique upbringing and educational experience helped him become who he is. He basically grew up as an international scholar. He learned how to be comfortable with broad range of people and cultures, be accademically successful and confident, be professionally successful, and speak in way that was accepted the mass culture.

Take him as a baby and put him in a crack house in the ghetto. You probably get a different result.



Well said.

:mushroom2:


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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