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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? *DELETED*
    #24838971 -

Post deleted by JayWise

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Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? [Re: JayWise]
    #24838984 -

Back in 2008 my 'real' dream herb plant changed my life forever. I dream intensely every time I get a wink of sleep. I hate it. Just a warning to the people's.

As far as the false herb sales, I don't know but have not looked into it.


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Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? *DELETED* [Re: pinedownpioneer]
    #24838994 -

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Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? [Re: JayWise]
    #24838998 -

To this day. I smoked and drank the herb tea often for a month or so. Changed my life for close to a decade now..probably forever. Recently I started writing my dreams down. Some of my 'sleep' is book worthy imo.
I'm sure cactus, dmt, fungi have attributed to my "24hr clock" but I rarely do any drugs few times a year. And went several years without doing any. Weed used to help tame the dreams or at least where I couldn't remember them but I can't smoke anymore due to job constraints.

Had had 2 different dream herbs. The real deal and the false one. I got the real dream herb from my mom where she got it I have no idea. I wish I still had it because it was the real deal. I'd spread the genetics far and wide.


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Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? [Re: pinedownpioneer]
    #24839799 -

The leaves really do look very similar, I mean come on.. however the flowers do not.

Not sure if there ever was confirmed a non-bitter variety or that all end up being either Chromolaena or just another Calea sp.

It may have be a marketing ploy / just people looking to make money... I've grown CZ and didn't find it hard to grow at all, but Chromolaena really may be much more of a weed, and is widespread.

These factors together are probably what made this issue proliferate.

Scary and weird that your dreams were affected forever since you took Calea! And also - sorry to say - fascinating, because by now any damage should have been repaired and it is a very long time for an acute effect. I would almost wonder about epigenetics or something... or I guess more likely, some sort of learnt effect


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    • Edited by Solipsis (12/11/17 05:18 PM)

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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? *DELETED* [Re: Solipsis]
        #24841178 -

    Post deleted by JayWise

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    Edited by JayWise (12/12/17 03:56 AM)

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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? [Re: JayWise]
        #24841362 -

    The active compounds are not alkaloids but sesquiterpenes (sesquiterpene lactones to be precise) and the like, which do not contain a basic nitrogen and aren't necessarily bitter as far as I know at least not with the tendency alkaloids have. Is Salvia bitter for example? Not really..

    The flavinoids may be bitter though, but those are not the Calea oneirogen actives.

    Don't dismiss the utter possibility of non-bitter Calea as if it were a supposed 'non-bitter mesc cactus'. I am not saying caleicines definitely aren't bitter, but they a aren't as a rule of thumb like actual alkaloids which is yes apparently because we have developed detection of neurotransmitter-mimicking plant actives usually sharing that basic nitrogen etc.


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    • Edited by Solipsis (12/12/17 08:22 AM)

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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? *DELETED* [Re: Solipsis]
        #24841433 -

    Post deleted by JayWise

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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? [Re: JayWise]
        #24841627 -

    silene capensis tastes like wood


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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? *DELETED* [Re: Feroxx]
        #24841698 -

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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? [Re: JayWise]
        #24842107 -

    JayWise said:
    As an aside - as someone who quids Salvia d. on a regular basis I can assure you it certainly is bitter - if certainly not quite Calea levels of gag-inducement.


    Could you please elaborate on amount of leaves and effects please? I have plenty of fresh leaf available and I've been curious to try the traditional way. I sure ain't smoking a tenth of the Salvia I harvest.


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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? [Re: MeanGreen]
        #24842230 -

    Obviously I can't comment on the probably huge amount of so advertised 'non-bitter calea' and I want to believe you right away that your own experiences translate to a generalization. It's not that I don't believe it but I haven't quite done that research so I couldn't know.

    @ bitterness: yes probably the majority of plant leaves don't taste exactly great and indeed there are many compounds that may taste more or less bitter, but if there would be any non-bitter variety I wouldn't exactly expect it to taste like heaven but at least not like the vilest thing ever like say category cactus snot. So it's all relative, you shouldn't take it too literal or too black and white. The point was that not everything has that same extreme level of bitterness.

    I have trouble recalling exactly how nasty I found the calea when I tried it years ago, it may not have been but I also don't remember the effects being unmistakable or anything like that.

    I do have a bit of homegrown Calea and some homegrown S. Capensis but I doubt I will be taking them. But I am curious enough to at least check how bitter the dried leaves of the Calea are :laugh:


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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? *DELETED* [Re: MeanGreen]
        #24843216 -

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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? [Re: JayWise]
        #24846294 -

    ive posted before on other forum about this,,,
    i ordered an once of calea Z leaves a few years ago...
    i found 4-5 seed pods, and they grew about 4 plants.

    Most grew fast, tall, and spear-shaped-leaves..


    but one of the plants grew slower, bushier, and rounded leaves.


    From what i can tell, the bushy-round-leaf version is sold as the 'real' bitter,
    and the tall-spear-leaf is often sold as the non-bitter, but they are the same.
    Just different morphology of the same plant. Tastes the same to me. my 2c.

    They are both currently flowering.. tall plants are 10' x 5' x 10' ..bushy round-leaf is about 3' X 3'


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    PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN get back to the garden

    some came singing, some come to play, some come for keeping the dark away

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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? [Re: ellomello]
        #24846387 -

    Has it altered your dreams yet?


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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? [Re: JayWise]
        #24847412 -

    JayWise said:
    You saying it is still affecting your dreams 9 years later? I thought most people had trouble getting any effects out of it. Though they may just have had C. odorata of course!


    Same here, I partook of the calea as well as xhosa root and would now like whatever herb it is that shuts off dreams completely.

    I think most people ignore their dreams, like it’s just a passing flash.  Once you open up your sleeping consciousness and ‘wake up’ to your dreams, even without the herb all that ‘dream’ that you really just kind of glazed through is much more easily noticed.  So it’s not like your dream’s volume gets turned up necessarily bit what was always there, you’re now more primed to see.  It doesn’t affect the dream so much as your ability to pay attention to it, and wake up in it.

    And then you can’t ignore it anymore, you just always see it now.  I’m sure it’s different for everyone, but that has been my experience.  It’s hard to get rest when your dream life is more exhausting than your ‘real’ life.  And in dream life, ANYTHING goes...  nothing is impossibe, if you know what I’m saying. 

    One other thing I’ve noticed and again this may just be my head, the ‘bad dreams’ become more and more frequent and those good ones you wish you could fall back asleep to get back into become more and more elusive.  Buyer beware..


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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? [Re: Amanita86]
        #24847615 -

    I rarely have bad dreams. Most of them are neutral as in not scary but they are not particularly enjoyable or exciting. Kind of boring and exhausting. But I often have dreams that are amazing, exciting, beautiful, creative, out of this world.  I always like the dreams where I'm swimming underwater like aqua man. Flying and tripping dreams are cool but very rare. OBE dreams where I observe myself are interesting. I often see and intetact with people I do not recognize but I might have seen them in passing out in public.


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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? [Re: pinedownpioneer]
        #24852043 -

    As far as i remember they smell and taste exactly the same to me.. i will do a comparison soon and let y'a know..
    i remember the seed pods i grew were identical, they looked like spear-leaf pods, (longer/skinnier/more-compact)
    iam still convinced it's a morphology of the same plant. The spear-leaf has given me vivid clear-headed dreams.


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    PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN get back to the garden

    some came singing, some come to play, some come for keeping the dark away

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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? *DELETED* [Re: ellomello]
        #24852964 -

    Post deleted by JayWise

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    Re: How did the whole fake Calea thing originate? [Re: JayWise]
        #24853628 -

    Do you guys also run into "agents" of the dream when it is lucid? I have experience with lucid dreaming and have been able to indeed morph and alter absolutely everything in the dream. The more I try to control though, the more pushback I tend to get by the apparent agency of the dream. In the more extreme cases though I could even morph them. Ultimately though I tend to wake up when there is too much 'fighting' / resistance and I decided I don't want to sacrifice sleep over that.

    I find it hard to let go when falling asleep though and have trouble with it.. maybe you guys need to learn to let go while dreaming...

    And yes typically people don't recall their dreams when they wake up (particularly the first things that pop in one's head tend to overwrite the dream recollection immediately if no attention is paid) and there is also no attention paid to the level of lucidity.
    "Ignoring" something sort of implies having awareness of it on some level and then rejecting this. I think typically people are not really aware of any potential.

    I wonder if there are sleep studies / sleep labs etc that have experience with the problems you are having and can help you to resolve them.


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    • Edited by Solipsis (12/18/17 02:29 PM)

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    Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Ethnobotanical Garden
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