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Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24824091 -

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Yes, there are problems of being inaccurate with our prejudgments regarding "race or gender", that's why our minds are constantly readjusting depending on the circumstances.

Sometimes our prejudgments are incredibly accurate, that's why our brains are wired for statistical commonsense.


We've already discussed fear and its irrationality.

If your brain was wired for statistical commonsense youd be railing against police officers and vending machines, rather than immigrants.


What makes you think I don't have serious issues with the way law enforcement conducts itself in the US? 

You do realize a person can demand that our current immigration laws are enforced and be very critical of law enforcement at the same time?

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #24824114 -

Tipote said:
qman said:
"give me a single location"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-go_area


Youve given me a list of places in Europe that people have said are no-go zones. That doesn't make them no-go zones. All accounts are very clearly disputed (as noted by wikipedia) and poverty and community alienation seem to be more significant than race or religion as the cause.

Well at least you posted wikipedia, I honestly expected the gatestone institute.
Quote:
"you let those prejudges steer you"
Oh really, how so?


You talk like they are legitimate, justified and that its just natural to act upon them. Whereas I think a lot of us here are arguing that, yes everyone makes prejudgements, but letting them dominate your actions towards people you don't know is wrong.

You say things like: 'well everyone is prejudice' when we are talking about how prejudice manifests in creating obstacles to people's development. That brushes off the actual judgements, unfairly given, that affect peoples life chances.
Quote:
"What if your ancestors were rejected?"
The US had no moral or ethical obligation to have my ancestors to come to the US, they wanted the cheap labor for that moment in time and nothing more.


That wasn't the question I asked.
Quote:
"apply to refugees too"
Genuine refugees are different than economic migrants


No shit, Sherlock.
Now will you answer the question?


So people disagree with the definition of a no-go zone, so be it. I'm sure poverty plays a major role as does religion, either way the native citizens obviously don't want it.

"but letting then dominate your actions towards people you don't know it wrong"

You have prejudgments against people you also don't know that has led you to advocate preemptive violence against them.

"answer the question"

Yes, genuine refugees should be given safe zones, that doesn't mean the EU needs to take them in when there's areas closer to them that offer the same safety.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 2
    #24824290 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Yes, there are problems of being inaccurate with our prejudgments regarding "race or gender", that's why our minds are constantly readjusting depending on the circumstances.

Sometimes our prejudgments are incredibly accurate, that's why our brains are wired for statistical commonsense.


We've already discussed fear and its irrationality.

If your brain was wired for statistical commonsense youd be railing against police officers and vending machines, rather than immigrants.


What makes you think I don't have serious issues with the way law enforcement conducts itself in the US? 



Uhhh...your utter refusal to acknowledge the merits of the NFL protests, BLM, or the existence of institutional racism at all.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #24824302 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Yes, there are problems of being inaccurate with our prejudgments regarding "race or gender", that's why our minds are constantly readjusting depending on the circumstances.

Sometimes our prejudgments are incredibly accurate, that's why our brains are wired for statistical commonsense.


We've already discussed fear and its irrationality.

If your brain was wired for statistical commonsense youd be railing against police officers and vending machines, rather than immigrants.


What makes you think I don't have serious issues with the way law enforcement conducts itself in the US? 

You do realize a person can demand that our current immigration laws are enforced and be very critical of law enforcement at the same time?


For some reason you seem a lot more critical of the thing that is a lot less likely to affect you, or most americans.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #24824320 -

Inb4 justifying statistically less likely fears as more rational than statistically more likely fears


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24824349 -

The Ecstatic said:
qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Yes, there are problems of being inaccurate with our prejudgments regarding "race or gender", that's why our minds are constantly readjusting depending on the circumstances.

Sometimes our prejudgments are incredibly accurate, that's why our brains are wired for statistical commonsense.


We've already discussed fear and its irrationality.

If your brain was wired for statistical commonsense youd be railing against police officers and vending machines, rather than immigrants.


What makes you think I don't have serious issues with the way law enforcement conducts itself in the US? 



Uhhh...your utter refusal to acknowledge the merits of the NFL protests, BLM, or the existence of institutional racism at all.


Oh, so police misconduct is only an issue for non-whites now.

Did you ever think that making this strictly a racial issue means it will never get the attention it deserves? 

My issue with both the NFL protests and BLM is the false narrative that police misconduct affects only non-whites, that's simply not the reality of the situation.

"institutional racism"

So one can't acknowledge police misconduct without believing there's some sort of "institutional racism" taking place?  When did all of these rules come out?  :rofl2:

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #24824352 -

Bigbadwooof said:
qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
Quote:
Yes, there are problems of being inaccurate with our prejudgments regarding "race or gender", that's why our minds are constantly readjusting depending on the circumstances.

Sometimes our prejudgments are incredibly accurate, that's why our brains are wired for statistical commonsense.


We've already discussed fear and its irrationality.

If your brain was wired for statistical commonsense youd be railing against police officers and vending machines, rather than immigrants.


What makes you think I don't have serious issues with the way law enforcement conducts itself in the US? 

You do realize a person can demand that our current immigration laws are enforced and be very critical of law enforcement at the same time?


For some reason you seem a lot more critical of the thing that is a lot less likely to affect you, or most americans.


Are you suggesting immigration doesn't affect most Americans?  Either directly or indirectly is does affect most Americans.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24824354 -

The Ecstatic said:
Inb4 justifying statistically less likely fears as more rational than statistically more likely fears


What are these fears that you speak of?

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 1
    #24824372 -

qman said:
My issue with both the NFL protests and BLM is the false narrative that police misconduct affects only non-whites, that's simply not the reality of the situation.


Can you point to a news article or a shroomery post where anyone claimed "police misconduct affects only non-whites"???


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24824381 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
qman said:
My issue with both the NFL protests and BLM is the false narrative that police misconduct affects only non-whites, that's simply not the reality of the situation.


Can you point to a news article or a shroomery post where anyone claimed "police misconduct affects only non-whites"???


Well, BLM is specifically making it a racial issue when it clearly isn't.

The NFL protests also do the same thing, why did they exclude whites that are also victims of police misconduct and injustices in the criminal justice system? 

They're never going to make any progress if they continue to alienate a whole group of people that also are affected by the same injustices.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #24824439 -

No one's saying whites are treated fairly.  They're saying whites often get treated better, that's all.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24824473 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
No one's saying whites are treated fairly.  They're saying whites often get treated better, that's all.


How are they treated better if they're also victims of the same injustices from the criminal justice system? That doesn't make any sense.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #24824739 -

Blacks are more likely to be treated unjustly than whites, according to many studies.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24825088 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Blacks are more likely to be treated unjustly than whites, according to many studies.


Higher arrest and conviction rates for blacks doesn't mean they're treated unjustly relative to whites, it means they commit more criminal acts relative to whites.

Again, police misconduct on the general population isn't a racial issue, it affects people regardless of sex, age, social-economic status and race.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #24825137 -

Falcon didn't say anything about arrest and conviction rates.  Falcon said they're more likely to be treated unjustly, according to studies.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Enlil]
    #24825190 -

But even if he did, you cant take arrest rates and equate that with criminal acts.

I commit crimes every single day and dont get arrested for it.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24825198 -

And I don't commit any crimes, but I'm arrested almost every day.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Enlil]
    #24825203 -

Yin and yang :cookiemonster:


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #24825316 -

qman said:
relic said:
is there a chinatown where you live?  how about a little italy?  a lot of those chinese and italian immigrants don't integrate either (at all). some people in those populations are extremely misogynistic and some of them rape women from other communities. 

is the only distinction you make between the above groups and muslims the islamic religion?  not a gotcha question, just dialogue btw.


Of course Islam is a major factor, isn't that basically stating the obvious? 

Also, Chinatown's and little Italy's are terrible analogies to what we're discussing, but you already know that fact.


1.  that was addressed to bubbles, not you.  i already know your thoughts on the matter as you've stated them ad nauseam.

2.  i didn't ask about islam being a "major factor".

 

i was asking bubbles for a dialogue about his opinions on the matter because he lives in a different country than i do and as such his life experience is probably quite a bit different than mine.  i have no idea why you would presume to know better about the UK and his thoughts about the comparison i made than he does.  furthermore, i have no idea why you'd assume that i already know something that's not a fact, no matter if you assert it to be.  this thread and forum are chock full of your gratuitous assertions and adding yet another to a question not addressed to you does nothing to further the conversation.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24825499 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Blacks are more likely to be treated unjustly than whites, according to many studies.



What studies?

Show us. And please make sure the methodology is included -- otherwise it's hard to digest.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy

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