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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24790010 -

Probably so, I'm glad we can share mutual respect for one another regardless of our political differences. It seems pretty evident to me on collusion at this point with the campaign, but I will contend that there is no direct evidence that Trump himself was involved thus far. We'll see what unfolds, I'm open to either outcome.

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: krypto2000]
    #24792193 -

The proven 'collusion' (and I don't think collusion is the right word) is that people from inside Russia offered people inside the Trump campaign dirt on Hillary, which the Trump campaign expressed an interest in, but ultimately never accepted.  Is that pretty much the extend of it thus far?  Or has more been proven?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24792813 -

That's more or less it. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence outside of that but it's open for interpretation/opinion so I don't see much point in offering it. Maybe if I took the time to collect it all and outline it, but I am not up for that investment. We'll just have to wait and see what comes out of the investigation.

edit: Wait, Falcon, did you say you don't trust the intelligence community or am I thinking of someone else? If so then would you even trust the outcome of the investigation? I'm genuinely concerned for this country as a whole what will happen once the investigation ends if one side does not believe the outcome, regardless what the outcome is, that seems like the worst case scenario.

Edited by krypto2000 (11/19/17 01:38 AM)

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: krypto2000]
    #24792920 -

krypto2000 said:
Falcon, did you say you don't trust the intelligence community or am I thinking of someone else? If so then would you even trust the outcome of the investigation?


US intelligence released a report about Russian interference in the election saying "CIA and FBI have high confidence in this judgment; NSA has moderate confidence".  If you read the report, however, it is completely lacking in evidence and says it's conclusions are based on judgments from past Russian behavior.

I believe them, but basing a conclusion on past behavior is pretty weak to me, especially since I'm not aware of any past election medddling.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24793153 -

Didn't numerous other foreign intelligence agencies warn us of Russian interference last year as well though? I was to say it was at least two or three other agencies, I believe Germany was one. I'm not sure what those reports were based on, I can see if I can dig them up if you want, just going from memory. Russia also has known to interfere with foreign elections such as with France, like you say past action alone is not reason enough to assume something, but it does at least compel you to entertain it more than you would otherwise and warrant further investigating.

edit: Here's a report on the French election. I thought this was before the US election, but it looks like it was after. It's also mostly supported by the same heresay as the US election so I can't blame you for not believing it. I'm not convinced either mind you, I'm just inclined to believe it over not until more comes out to sway my opinion. https://www.wired.com/2017/05/nsa-director-confirms-russia-hacked-french-election-infrastructure/

Edited by krypto2000 (11/19/17 10:02 AM)

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: krypto2000]
    #24793764 -

So you're inclined to believe something without evidence, I'm not.

I'm not even claiming I'm right, I'm just saying we don't know, and innocent until proven guilty and what not.

I think Hillary started another McCarthy era against Russia, and it's spreading to other Western countries.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24793929 -

I agree, I'm not inclined to convict him, innocent until proven guilty, not believed guilty. I'm inclined to believe he's guilty, but I do not know, and will not know until the investigation is complete (at least hopefully we will know at that point).

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: krypto2000]
    #24794118 -

I'll make a bet the investigation will not end until Trump's presidency ends, at which point it will die.  :stoned:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24794132 -

I have been willing to take that Pepsi challenge as well.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #24794314 -

I don't know how it will come out. I would consider betting on the outcome if we could be guaranteed the investigation were honest and thorough, but that is what I am worried about.

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24795172 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The proven 'collusion' (and I don't think collusion is the right word) is that people from inside Russia offered people inside the Trump campaign dirt on Hillary, which the Trump campaign expressed an interest in, but ultimately never accepted.  Is that pretty much the extend of it thus far?  Or has more been proven?


What is the right word?

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
So you're inclined to believe something without evidence, I'm not.

I'm not even claiming I'm right, I'm just saying we don't know, and innocent until proven guilty and what not.

I think Hillary started another McCarthy era against Russia, and it's spreading to other Western countries.


Dude, how did Hillary do that? I can only assume you mean the dossier which by the way is proving to be at least somewhat accurate in some cases. If you’re interested I’m sure I can provide a link if you need

I on the other hand have enough proof of intent to collude w a foreign agent to tip our election. I’m not happy about it. D or R it’s well passed time to clean house


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Rate me here

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24795199 -

verb (used without object), conspired, conspiring.
1.
to agree together, especially secretly, to do something wrong, evil, or illegal:
They conspired to kill the king.
2.
to act or work together toward the same result or goal.
verb (used with object), conspired, conspiring.
3.
to plot (something wrong, evil, or illegal).
That’s a pretty good word to describe the Trump administration namely Kush

Russnesia
Pronounced Russ-knee-zia
noun
a partial or total loss of memory concerning any contact with Russians


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Rate me here

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: Citizen X]
    #24795215 -

Yeah, I don't see how Hillary did that. I am no Hillary supporter, but Trump was the first one who brought up election rigging in the debate. The dossier was funded by the democrats, but only after it was initiated by the republicans. In either case the campaign did not even use the dossier, they gave the info over to the FBI at which point an investigation began and it was not spoken of until after the election was over because Mitch McConnel and the house republicans expressly said they would not support an investigation or disclosure when Obama petitioned them over it.

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: krypto2000]
    #24795684 -

Citizen X said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The proven 'collusion' (and I don't think collusion is the right word) is that people from inside Russia offered people inside the Trump campaign dirt on Hillary, which the Trump campaign expressed an interest in, but ultimately never accepted.


What is the right word


"Someone in Russia offered dirt on Hillary to the Trump administration" would be more accurate than "Trump colluded with the Russian Government".

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I think Hillary started another McCarthy era against Russia, and it's spreading to other Western countries.


Dude, how did Hillary do that?


I started a thread about it long before Trump was even elected.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24795994 -

Hmmm. I think a congressman being interviewed on CNN just screwed up and accidentally revealed that there are sealed indictments in the Russia probe. :popcorn:


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24796022 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Citizen X said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The proven 'collusion' (and I don't think collusion is the right word) is that people from inside Russia offered people inside the Trump campaign dirt on Hillary, which the Trump campaign expressed an interest in, but ultimately never accepted.


What is the right word


"Someone in Russia offered dirt on Hillary to the Trump administration" would be more accurate than "Trump colluded with the Russian Government".

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I think Hillary started another McCarthy era against Russia, and it's spreading to other Western countries.


Dude, how did Hillary do that?


I started a thread about it long before Trump was even elected.


I am against Hillary as much as the next guy but Hillary did not create the Russian scare out of thin air, she was responding to reports already circulating within the intelligence community, not just our intelligence community, but the international intelligence community. You can say they are being factious and that Hillary is either backing them or a pawn for them, I have no evidence to the contrary and that is not an unreasonable position to take, but it's important to recognize the actual origins here. It's not as if Hillary was just making things up and labeling people as communist for supporting a certain political ideology that she disagrees with, she's responding to actual intelligence reports of Russian interference.

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: koods]
    #24796101 -

koods said:
Hmmm. I think a congressman being interviewed on CNN just screwed up and accidentally revealed that there are sealed indictments in the Russia probe. :popcorn:


How many times have you posted that something big is about to break, only to learn it is another NOTHING BURGER???

No, he didn't screw up.  He's trying to excite the dumbest of the democrats into thinking there's FINALLY something there.  How much do you want to bet this another nothing burger that has nothing to do with Trump colluding with Russia???


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: krypto2000]
    #24796109 -

krypto2000 said:
Hillary did not create the Russian scare out of thin air, she was responding to reports already circulating within the intelligence community, not just our intelligence community, but the international intelligence community. You can say they are being factious and that Hillary is either backing them or a pawn for them, I have no evidence to the contrary and that is not an unreasonable position to take, but it's important to recognize the actual origins here. It's not as if Hillary was just making things up and labeling people as communist for supporting a certain political ideology that she disagrees with, she's responding to actual intelligence reports of Russian interference.


The intelligence reports were that Russia may have gotten a hold of the DNC emails.  Hillary's spin on that was that Russia was trying to interfere with getting her elected.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24796190 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
koods said:
Hmmm. I think a congressman being interviewed on CNN just screwed up and accidentally revealed that there are sealed indictments in the Russia probe. :popcorn:


How many times have you posted that something big is about to break, only to learn it is another NOTHING BURGER???

No, he didn't screw up.  He's trying to excite the dumbest of the democrats into thinking there's FINALLY something there.  How much do you want to bet this another nothing burger that has nothing to do with Trump colluding with Russia???


The last thing that came out was that two trump campaign members have been indicted and one flipped. I would not call that a 'nothing burger.'

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Re: Trump Gets Friendly with Putin [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24796193 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
krypto2000 said:
Hillary did not create the Russian scare out of thin air, she was responding to reports already circulating within the intelligence community, not just our intelligence community, but the international intelligence community. You can say they are being factious and that Hillary is either backing them or a pawn for them, I have no evidence to the contrary and that is not an unreasonable position to take, but it's important to recognize the actual origins here. It's not as if Hillary was just making things up and labeling people as communist for supporting a certain political ideology that she disagrees with, she's responding to actual intelligence reports of Russian interference.


The intelligence reports were that Russia may have gotten a hold of the DNC emails.  Hillary's spin on that was that Russia was trying to interfere with getting her elected.


That's not spin. That is reality.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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