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Insanity = Genius?
    #247564 -

Hello fellow Shroomerites!


One thing I've wondered ever since I started using "hallucinogens" (which I feel is a misnomer, they should be called "eye-openers" or something), is -- we've been discussing in this forum, circular theories and the like.

What if, in the circle of "personalities" -- let's assume there are 360 different "personalities" a person could have, 1 for each degree of a circle.

Anyway, what do you think of the theory that someone who is considered "genius" would be point zero on this hypothetical circle. As the degree number increases, the personalities vary by eventually getting less "genius" and more "average" by the 180 degree mark, then from there they get more "eccentric" until finally degree 359 which would be considered "complete insanity". If this hasn't been too confusing and you've been able to follow me, this would mean that at the very "start" is genius and at the very "end" is insanity -- but they are right next to each other!

Does anyone think this could be possible? I mean let's face it, the greatest geniuses have always been considered, at the very least, "eccentric" (and that's usually just a polite way to say "insane"). Am I the only one who has wondered about this?

------------------
Reality is for people who can't handle drugs.


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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247565 -

It sure can make you crazy not having absolute opinions and being open to all ideas giving each one logigal positive and negative arguments.

But what is genius? Understanding the most?, creating the most?, a combo of both?, understanding one thing to the full?

I'm a jack af all trades master of none.
I respect those who are masters in particular field but could never replicate that whithin my own personality.

Besides Genius is as most a relative term as would insanity. Objectively speaking no one is any of the two ever. With the exception of chem/bio/hormone problems that contribute to real psychiatric dissorders.



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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247566 -

I have to agree with the Greco. The term genius is a social label which is applied to those whom figure out some niche and become a master at it. Van Gogh was an impressionistic genius. Maciaveli was a sociological genius. Bill Gates is an opportunistic genius. I think that perhaps the term genius is way too hazy for the use in mathematical labeling like you want to Flipmode. I think EVERYONE is a genius at something. Not a genius IQ, but we all know that IQ is just arbitrarty anyway. But everyone is good at something, and everyone is the best at something specific. But I agree with you on one point. I think the point at which anyone touches genius in there own mind is the point at which they also touch insanity. Their creativity arises from the insane correlations drawn up by their mind (my personal definition for creativity is the ability to make connections between two abstract things, connections which no one had made before).

I hope that made sense...if not, I'll just blame it on the insane nature of my thoughts.

Ish


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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247567 -

I think the connection between insaneity and genius has to do with psychological balance. Bill Gates is probably a opportuinistic genuis, but he is way out of balance, way too power and money hungry for me to think of him as anything but insane. Same with a great artist, there is a price to pay for opening yourself up to one type of energy and focus, many artists have poor social lives and live in a state of torment. One guy I know graduated from Cornell with a degree in physics went to get his masters and was made a teachers aid or something, but his emotional, interpersonal life is that of a ten year old. Its like he used the energy of his social anxiety to further his learning, with out developing the rest. He's not insane, but to some extent I can see how too narrow a focus could push someone over the edge.


--------------------
my vocabulary did this to me

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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247568 -

Yeah, I see what you're all saying. I agree thay *everyone* has something that they're better at than anyone else in the world, even the people who do best in the same thing, nobody will ever "out-do" anyone on the cosmic scale (and by that I mean, when all is said and done, everything is basically balanced out).

Yeah all labels like genius and insane are subjective, in fact they're just opinions for that matter.

Of course, I'd rather be called "genius" than "insane" but we never have a choice of what we are labeled as by society...

Anyway I just woke up and want to post this fantastic dream I had last night in Off-Topic before I forget it all....which I already might have...

------------------
Reality is for people who can't handle drugs.


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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247569 -

I see genious as unlimited creativity. Mozart is recognized as the one of the most intelligent people in history. But mostly he was just able to control and direct is creativity without inhibiting it. Eccentric people are also very creative, this is no coincidence. This also explains why creative geniouses sometimes end up in mental institutions. Going back to your 360 degree analogy, I see 0/360 as containing the most creativity and imagination and 180 degrees containing the least. Creativity is the key. Imagination is the key. They enjoy symbiosis.

[This message has been edited by cent (edited November 19, 1999).]


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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247570 -


The king chuckles
and the court cheers
While the madman dances
and giggles in their ears.
The eternal court jester
juggles and mystifies
with child like pranks
He's the king of one
in insanity's ranks.

The fool he may seem,
but that's not always true,
This madman's actually smarter
than both me and you,
For his actions are not questioned
and his true motives never known
Living free from worries
any place he calls home.


Peace,
Tao of Earth
www.technoshaman.org


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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247571 -

Flip just wonderin wher eu came up with that from? there is a sample in either an Orb or Plastikman(i think it's Orb) that says that exact thing..and makes the same refrence to a circle as u did in the same way.

-Primate

------------------
~~"Oh, welcome to this world of fools, of pink champagne and swimming pools, where all you have to lose is your virginity. Perhaps you'll have some fun tonight, so stick around and take a bite...of life. We don't need feebleness in this proximity"~~



--------------------
"Power to the peaceful"

-Micheal Franti and Spearhead

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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247572 -

It's usually appropriate to use a circle as a frame of reference for understanding the dynamics of different personality charactistics. Like astrology does for example.

I think "geniuses" happen in cycles in our society. I also think there are known and unknown geniuses. Some one truely gifted usually exhibits enhanced abilities at a very early age, like Mozart and in doing so cannot hep but be held above the general populace.

But being a genius is usually costly. I agree with Inbetween about his conclusions.

There may be a less recognised group "smart geniuses" who acknowledge the need to maintain balance in a life of increasing complexity and demands. They probably understand the benefits of anonimoty.

It's Funny that those geniuses who impact our lives the most, both living and dead, were Total Flakes with other parts of their lives wayout of balance.


MM

------------------
Seeing is believing.


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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247573 -

Primate --
it was just something I've wondered about since I started taking psychedelics; just a thought that popped into my head one day. I've never listened to Orb or Plastikman ( :smile:please don't flame me! :smile:) but I'd be interested in looking at the lyrics for that song if you can find them!

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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247574 -

I have felt, and do feel that most of the geniuses throughout most of human history have been insane. A certain level of insanity comes along with living in a world, with rules put in place for people of a much less intelligence than your own. This does not mean, however, that simply because someone is not considered sane by society, that this person is a genius. It is really funny, because most of society does not even have an open enough mind to truly understand what it is to be insane. It makes me think about how society encourages conformation, and you all to be sane, and thew same. These two words mean the same thing to society. If you don't fit in with the rest of society, you are not the same, or in other words, insane; but if you do, then you are the same, and you are sane. Society itself represents who ever runs it. We feel (mostly subconsiously) that if we elect stupid, sane people to run our country, then they won't try to make things happen, then we will not have to work as hard. The downfall of this is that these "sane" people, who are now running our world, have made so many mistakes that it will take a thousandfold times the amount of work to get things to work the way we want them to. I call this phenomenon entropy. We create our own world, and then create our own worst enemy, and then, even though we have made all of these mistakes, we still choose to categoreize our own state of mental health. I'm sorry, but seem to have forgotten, but can you tell me who is insane again?

[This message has been edited by Dan (edited November 26, 1999).]


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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247575 -

The hard-ass politicians of the world need some shrooms, then and only then will they see how ridiculous everything they have created really is!

:icons/icon17::icons/icon17::icons/icon17::icons/icon17::icons/icon17::icons/icon17::icons/icon17::icons/icon17::icons/icon17::icons/icon17:

:smile:


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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247576 -

I think that all geniuses are a little insane in their own way, for the majority of people that society lablels "genious" know so much and are in love with basically one thing. This makes them not know, or at least not pay attention to other things. This is why i think that geniuses are often labeled insane, and i guess it's true in a way.


--------------------
Butter the Soul.

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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247577 -

Controled insanity is geniosity.
When you are insane, you do not think in a regular way. But it does not mean that you are genius. But when you control it, those thoughts became fundus of ideas and so on that can make you genius.
I know some insane schizo type people, and they are abolutely not genius.
That is what I think.

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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247578 -

Flipmode..hehe actually i was mistaken...it's from the band Hallucinogen...i think from the song demention(maybe it's dementia)..but i am not positive....i used to have the mp3....good luck finding written lyrics tho..because it is a sample...if i were you i'd just get napster and download the mp3 of the song....sorry i can't help any more

-Primate



--------------------
"Power to the peaceful"

-Micheal Franti and Spearhead

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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #247579 -

ok, i didn't read all your posts so if one of you said this, then sorry for stealing it. first off.. I sure fuckin hope so, cause i think i'm nuts most of the time.. secondly

That's assuming that genius is even the same type of thing as insanity. Weather a person is sane or not doesn't really affect directly how intelligent they are. You could be completely off your rocker and be dumb as a sack of bricks, or you could be incredibly smart and be as crazy as a loon. or any other combo really. However, i do believe that if your intelligent, the world may view you as insane simply because you have a greater understanding of the world around you, therefore setting you apart from your peers.. just my take on it..

~Kriz

------------------
"God made pot, Man made beer... who do you trust??"



--------------------
for a good time call (847)255-0350 ask for Kriz... i'm hot and ready for action...

(yes my real phone number)

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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #982855 -

genius is in a sense insanity, who says that the insane aren't just communicating / thinking on another level. I have shroomed many times and experienced what I can only perceive as insanity. Very interesting topic.


--------------------
- subtlepoint

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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: subtlepoint]
    #983270 -


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Re: Insanity = Genius? [Re: Anonymous]
    #983378 -

There's a sample in this one psytrance track by Infected Mushroom on the album Classical Mushroom where this guy goes "The difference between insanity and genius.. is measured only by success!"

Sounds good to me ;-)

Edit #1 (addition): oh and another clever thing I heard went something like this:
Think of the sane-scale as a number-line - at 0 you've got "sanity" or "normality." Then at -10 you've got "insanity," or totally whacked! HOWEVER, at +10 there's something completely different - not insanity, and not sanity..... to somebody at 0, somebody at +10 would look "just as far-out" or "wacked out" as somebody at -10. To soembody at +10, however, everybody at 0 and -10 looks insane.

Edit #2 (addition): AND that deal with the circle is in the album The Lone Deranger by Hallucinogen - I think its Timothy Leary talking about the circle with a "fine split in it - at one end is insanity, you go around the circle to insanity... and at the other end of the circle, CLOSE to insanity, but NOT insanity.. it UNsanity."

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
UNsane!


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE

Edited by Strumpling (10/22/02 03:19 PM)

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