Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds USA West Coast Strains   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]
I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens
    #9619702 -

I see over and over people claiming conspiracies are not real.  Heres a couple of little known but PROVEN conspiracies that exist:

The US government has considered attacking its own people to start a war!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Chem trails are real.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4398507,00.html

Yet I'm constantly seeing people here claiming conspiracies do not happen and their argument against this usually falls into 2 categories:

1. Ad hom (usually subtle mocking such as tinfoil hat or believer to make the questioner appear gullible)
2. Stereotyping (Lumping everything into 1 category, calling somebody a conspiracy theory nut again as a way of making them appear gullible)

Yet as I have demonstrated - history has proven you wrong AND ad hom / stereotyping are simply not valid arguments against someone posing an alternative theory.

Edited by Ego Death (01/16/09 09:09 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9619822 -

brace yourself.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9619824 -

3. you distort the facts.

Operation northwoods never passed the plan stage.

The UK spraying of chemicals on the population may have similarities to what are now being called chemtrails it isn't the same thing. Your assertion that a proves b is true is not correct.

I have watched conspiracy theory videos and they are so full of inconsistencies, innuendo and false conclusions that any truth presented gets obscured. I don't watch them any more.

Of course governments do bad things, but the hysteria turns your cause into something no one will listen to.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9619830 -

Ego Death said:
Yet as I have demonstrated - history has proven you wrong AND ad hom / stereotyping are simply not valid arguments against someone posing an alternative theory.


Agreed.  Nonetheless, two examples of justified conspiracies do not provide carte blanche for getting out the tinfoil hats.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Indigenous]
    #9619851 -

Look at the scenerios presented recently.

If obama is elected whites will riot.
If obama is not elected blacks will riot.
Bush is going to create a disaster to remain in office and become a dictator. (Clock is ticking)

I know there is no one conspiracy nut job propaganda leader, but how do you expect this stuff to get taken seriously.

In the 50s the conspiracy theory of the day was Catholics are hoarding guns to take over the country.

When y'all get your stories straight and come up with some facts people might listen.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Indigenous]
    #9619955 -

Quote:
When y'all

= Stereotyping

There is no all.  Every person is different and has fluid ideas that can change from 1 minute to the next and certainly should do on presentation of different evidence.

Personally I believe nothing.  I make educated guesses but I never assume them to be 100% correct.  I am neither believer or debunker although my questioning or relaying of experiences is often misinterpreted as "conspiracy nut" thus stereotyping.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9619979 -

I can see how that would bother someone but we should take into consideration the types of people that most often propose conspiracy theories while remaining objective enough to judge each case on its own merit.

That level of objectivity is hard to attain.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Indigenous]
    #9620015 -

Indigenous said:
3. you distort the facts.


My initial wording was possibly misleading thus I have amended it.  I do not intend to distort anything hence why sources are provided.

Quote:
Operation northwoods never passed the plan stage.


A conspiracy is a plan

Quote:
The UK spraying of chemicals on the population may have similarities to what are now being called chemtrails it isn't the same thing.


What is the same is THAT governments DO test on unsuspecting members of the public despite claims that they don't and people calling them nut conspiracy theorists.  That is the core of the issue.  Besides they did use the same method of dropping from planes (hence chem trails) in some tests.

Quote:
Your assertion that a proves b is true is not correct

.

Thats your assumption as I have not made that assertion!

My gripe is people using stereotyping as an argument when history clearly shows people are very right to question everything.  Somebody who questions the validity of a conspiracy is not a nut they are sensible.  Just don't use stereotyping as an argument against a conspiracy theory.  Its boring and a cheap attempt at providing an argument.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9620055 -

I have not seen anyone arguing that conspiracies do not occur.  What has frequently been argued is that specific conspiracy theories are not supported by the facts.  Similarly, while not all those who believe in the occurrence of conspiracies are "conspiracy nuts," there is a tendency amongst those who are mentally ill to focus their paranoid delusions on far-flung conspiracy theories.

The key here is to be specific, and to utilize critical thinking skills in considering the information one is provided.  The fact that a few, specific conspiracies were real in no way supports the factuality of any other conspiracies.  The fact that a few, specific conspiracy nuts exist in no way supports the idea that all those who believe in conspiracies are insane.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9620088 -

Ego Death said:
Quote:
Your assertion that a proves b is true is not correct

.

Thats your assumption as I have not made that assertion!


Yes you did. You said chemtrails are real and cited a 30 year old incident that is not the same.

The problem is most people post these youtube videos by alex jones and others that are so full of nothing substantial that you tend to discount all conspiracy theories. Then you get called a sheep because you don't agree.

Believing that conspiracies have and will exist doesn't make you a conspiracy theorist. It makes you sensible. Believe that everything is a conspiracy makes you a nut job.


For me it boils down to this.
Quote:
Chem trails are real.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4398507,00.html



I do not agree that this article proves modern chemtrails are real. Therefore I find it hard to take seriously a hypothetical person who would claim the opposite.

Edited by Indigenous (01/16/09 09:57 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens *DELETED* [Re: Veritas]
    #9620224 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: .

Edited by Lakefingers (01/16/09 10:33 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Lakefingers]
    #9620259 -

Are you a poet?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Veritas]
    #9620324 -

Quote:
The fact that a few, specific conspiracy nuts exist in no way supports the idea that all those who believe in conspiracies are insane.


I completely agree my problem is that the stereotype argument is brought up again and again as evidence.  Go through any debate on the shroomery on 9/11, there have been hundreds of arguments from people saying "you are a paranoid delusional schizophrenic" perpetuating a stereotype which allows someone to more easily pull off crime without being properly investigated.

With 9/11 as my example, I don't know exactly what happened and I'm not going to debate that here but the stereotyping has created a stigma which are preventing some researchers from going near it.  Same with ghosts/UFO phenomena.  Its an academic suicide to seriously study anything like this because of stereotyping.

This argument is useless and a hindrance yet seems to be the majority argument here on any subject that should really be labeled as "unknown" not "conspiracy nutters".  Its especially used by the so called "debunkers" and self proclaimed "critical thinkers" that actually haven't thought very much at all.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9620364 -

I guess it is like crying wolf. So many people are putting out BS, now no one will listen.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9620367 -

While I agree that each specific case should be judged on its' factual basis, rather than by the person presenting said case, it can be quite difficult to overcome the bias created by perception of the presenter.  IOW, if someone presents a concise, cogent argument based on the facts of a particular conspiracy, they are more likely to seem believable than someone who rants and raves about dozens of conspiracies, and who has clearly not critically analyzed the basis of their claims. 

It might be seen as stereotyping, but the latter approach is simply not persuasive to those who prefer to be convinced intellectually rather than swayed emotionally.  Now, this is not to say that all cases presented in an intellectual manner will be factual, nor that all cases presented in an emotional manner will not, but rather that each manner of presentation will appeal to a particular audience, and not to another.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9620378 -

Quote:
I completely agree my problem is that the stereotype argument is brought up again and again as evidence.  Go through any debate on the shroomery on 9/11, there have been hundreds of arguments from people saying "you are a paranoid delusional schizophrenic" perpetuating a stereotype which allows someone to more easily pull off crime without being properly investigated.

...

This argument is useless and a hindrance yet seems to be the majority argument here on any subject that should really be labeled as "unknown" not "conspiracy nutters".  Its especially used by the so called "debunkers" and self proclaimed "critical thinkers" that actually haven't thought very much at all.


Aren't you perpetuating a stereotype when you mention "all these people" (aka debunkers and critical thinkers) calling the other people paranoid? :sherlock:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Indigenous]
    #9620379 -

Quote:
30 year old incident that is not the same.


From the article:

Quote:
planes flew from north-east England to the tip of Cornwall along the south and west coasts, dropping huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide on the population.


Am I mistaken or the chemtrail theory is that planes may be releasing chemicals to test on the public? As far as I'm concerned this is the same, the only difference is we do not know if they are still testing stuff on us now but history tells us they would actually do it.  The point being it would be naive to assume they wouldn't so let us stay open minded to this concept.

How does 30 years old really make a difference?  Should we not question government now because this was X years ago?  I could consider that statement to be a distortion, it could be read as if "that was 30 years ago it wouldn't happen now".

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9620418 -

Well, that's a bit like linking to information regarding the concentration camps in Nazi Germany & asserting that they prove the existence of similar camps in Detroit.  "My Jewish neighbor disappeared, so it must be true!  The Nazi's have set up camps just outside Detroit, and the fact that it happened before proves it!"

If you mean that history repeats itself, and that it is wise to keep our eyes open to the abuse of power, I quite agree.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9620419 -

For the sake of argument say they are the same. You are saying that it happened 30 years ago therefore this proves it is happening now.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Veritas]
    #9620423 -

Its not "seen as stereotyping" it is.  Unless both parties full analyse the topic then theres a problem.

I can debate with someone over UFOs existence and they will bring up one hoax and claim the entire phenomena and every other misunderstood phenomena is therefore a hoax too.  Then they try to make you appear gullible.

Yet it is always the stereotyper who has not truly researched the topic hence them using that method as an argument.

It brings on a herd mentality of us and them.  The enlightened critical thinkers VS the enlightened conspiracy believers.  Then this dualistic outlooked is dumped onto people like me that have stated 100's of times that they do not believe anything 100%

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9620456 -

Well, that's their loss, isn't it?  If you have verified information which supports your assertions, and they refuse to consider said data because of the topic, then they are not utilizing critical thinking.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Indigenous]
    #9620460 -

Indigenous said:
For the sake of argument say they are the same. You are saying that it happened 30 years ago therefore this proves it is happening now.


NO i'm not.  Where have I said that?

I said it could be happening now and history proves that we should not dismiss the idea as insane which is what most people do.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9620477 -

"Chem trails are real," followed by a link, would appear to indicate that you believe the link supports your claim.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9620531 -

Ego Death said:
Its especially used by the so called "debunkers" and self proclaimed "critical thinkers" that actually haven't thought very much at all.


Sometimes it's easier to function by means of induction, an Aristotlean artifact, than to critically examine every new case.  That doesn't seem too surprising.  The thing that interests me is the predilection some have for new and eccentric explanations.  I often find, and I am in no way maligning anyone that posts here, it coincides with a psychology that wants to be the bearer of some esoteric truth, i.e. the inner circle of an inner circle.  :ooo:

What often happens, in the case of bearers of new news clashing with debunkers, is a hate fest and hurt feelings.  Why participate in such things?  For the life of me I can't understand it.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9620863 -

Conspiracies do happen.  In fact, many people have been sent to prison on conspiracy charges.  In some sense, conspiracies can happen whenever two or more wealthy and/or powerful people get together in private.  Simply by the nature of their powerful positions, anything they agree to can be considered a conspiracy.  Even government conspiracies happen.  MKULTRA is a well-known example.  In a sense, the CIA is inherently conspiratorial, as it's their job to keep secrets.

However, when determining whether or not a conspiracy is going on, we need to look at several factors.  How many people are involved?  The more people there are, the more likely someone will spill the beans.  How complex is the conspiracy?  The more complicated, the greater the chance that something will go wrong.  Is there a simpler explanation?  Occam's Razor says we shouldn't posit unnecessary variables.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Ego Death]
    #9621634 -

Well done.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Indigenous]
    #9621639 -

Indigenous said:
3. you distort the facts.

Operation northwoods never passed the plan stage.



Hey, uh... isn't that what a conspiracy is? A plan?

From Miriam Webster:
1: the act of conspiring together 2 a: an agreement among conspirators b: a group of conspirators
synonyms see plot

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Veritas]
    #9621846 -

The problem is that if you do the math, you will find a very large portion of the population is willing and able to lie cheat and steal.  An individual shouldn't take anyones word as fact,  Research everything yourself. There are levels of deceit on every side, and when something is hidden well nobody finds out.  Just remember; if any of these "conspiracy nuts" were ever right, they may possibly be acting a little nuts from the experience.  I don't believe in any of the popular TV theories, but I keep my ears open.  98% of these myths, legends,lies ,gossip, theories, are just ridiculous fabrications. But beware, society is NOT getting more honest.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: I'm a gullible insane conspiracy nut who gets followed by aliens [Re: Cyric]
    #9622207 -

Cyric said:
Indigenous said:
3. you distort the facts.

Operation northwoods never passed the plan stage.



Hey, uh... isn't that what a conspiracy is? A plan?

From Miriam Webster:
1: the act of conspiring together 2 a: an agreement among conspirators b: a group of conspirators
synonyms see plot


It was a hypothetical scenario that was canceled just before it reached the conspiracy stage.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2  [ show all ]

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds USA West Coast Strains   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* A big reason why aliens DO exist!
( 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 all )		 Ego Death 15,702 181 08/06/03 10:53 AM
by Azmodeus
* the ultimate conspiracy
( 1 2 all )		 emex 3,271 21 07/26/02 11:55 AM
by whiterastahippie
* Alien Essay Jackal 1,519 2 01/08/03 08:57 PM
by Jackal
* when people go absolutely insane Scarfmeister 2,531 18 07/29/05 06:06 PM
by SerioOria
* Aliens,.... ALIENS!!!!!!!
( 1 2 3 all )		 johnnyfive 4,491 54 09/30/14 11:34 PM
by cadsenic
* do aliens exist?
( 1 2 all )		 dubbyah 3,541 38 02/02/06 11:35 AM
by Icelander
* Alien Nonsense
( 1 2 3 all )		 Swami 5,532 46 11/20/15 03:01 AM
by CosmicJoke
* If an alien race were to give the human race an award...
( 1 2 all )		 adamj 2,764 26 04/29/04 10:11 PM
by cosmicchic

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
2,917 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 16 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.033 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 16 queries.