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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk * 5
    #23229195 -



Okay, sure, maybe this is the only thing this elephant can draw/write.

It's still ridiculously impressive.

The elephant clearly seems to be more cognitively aware than most human children between 1-18/24 months.

Edited by morrowasted (05/15/16 10:52 AM)

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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: morrowasted]
    #23229242 -

More like ridiculously exploitative.  Poor babe, just hope it doesn't snap someday and crush people's heads like watermelons.

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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23229250 -

Exploitative or not, it's extremely impressive and indicative of the complex thought life potential of elephants.

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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: morrowasted]
    #23229273 -

I'm more impressed by their ability to smush underfoot human heads like the spoilt cantaloupes they are.

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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23229324 -

That elephant looks really peaceful, she's probably on a nature reserve or something.

Not a bad painter, too... i've seen worse compositions by people in art school...

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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #23229337 -

If only we could get sheekle to do that.


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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: Sun King]
    #23229356 -

:lol:

Elephants are incredibly smart.

Which makes sense cause they head is Fuckin HUGE.


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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #23229421 -



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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: Asante] * 1
    #23229437 -

Good god people, this video isn't about the video being "cute". It's about pointing out how goddamned smart elephants are.

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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #23229628 -

Quote:
Born Free explains that it is a “myth” that the elephant’s ability to paint is a result of their natural cleverness. Rather, directly refuting Maesa’s story about how their elephants learned to paint, “Elephants endure months of physical abuse to learn how to hold a paint brush, draw a straight line and paint flowers and leaves on trees.”

Like elephants used in the elephant trekking industry, young elephants used for painting must be broken and experience the pain of the phajaan process. Over this time baby elephants are starved, shackled, and beaten, until their spirit is completely broken and will submit to the will of their captors.  Once young elephants have undergone this process they can being learning to paint.



and how goddamned cruel people can be in their attempts to garner tourist dollars by trying to make elephants appear relatable to humans when they're anything but.

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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23229637 -

That doesn't change the fact that they can learn how to paint :facepalm:

I don't know what you're trying to prove here.

Edited by morrowasted (05/15/16 01:26 PM)

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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: morrowasted]
    #23229653 -

I don't need to prove anything.  I'm just pointing out that I don't consider an animal being tortured into doing something it doesn't want to do impressive.

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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: morrowasted] * 3
    #23229665 -

That the elephants are abused and exploited to get to that point so you can see a video of an elephant painting. Because it would never happen naturally.
Yeah, elephants are smart. Many humans, not so much.


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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23229674 -

You're essentially demeaning the elephant.

Imagine an alien race imprisons and tortures humans and breaks their will. Over successive generations humans lose the ability to do anything other than what is taught to them by the aliens. The aliens teach humans to paint themselves and draw write their names.

An alien might remark, well, humans must be quite intelligent if they are able to learn to do that.

For another alien to come along and say, "No that isn't impressive because the only reason they are able to do that is because we torture them and enslave them" is missing the point. Humans are demonstrating the capacity for learning. That is what this video is demonstrating: the elephants clearly have the capacity for a significant amount of learning.

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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: morrowasted]
    #23229679 -

My analogy may not be perfect, because humans naturally do these kinds of things. My point is only that it's clear that elephants possess a significant potential for learning.

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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: morrowasted]
    #23229680 -

:uhhnothanks: ok

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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: morrowasted] * 3
    #23229681 -

Make no mistake... this is just a way for them to make money from tourists and nothing more. They don't give a single fuck about "demonstrating the elephants have a capacity for learning"

Elephants perform stunts in the circus too. They can use tools. They understand human body language. They show empathy. They mourn their dead. They have ridiculous memory. We already know elephants are intelligent.


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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: Shroomism]
    #23230109 -

Shroomism said:
Make no mistake... this is just a way for them to make money from tourists and nothing more. They don't give a single fuck about "demonstrating the elephants have a capacity for learning"

Elephants perform stunts in the circus too. They can use tools. They understand human body language. They show empathy. They mourn their dead. They have ridiculous memory. We already know elephants are intelligent.



I think what morrowwasted was saying is that this is sort of a reminder of this fact

I mean I legit didn't know animals actually had any sentience till like the age of 14. I grew up in a suburb. None of my parents/relatives/siblings/friends had dogs. Until I dated a chick with like 3-4 dogs as was around them a lot, I never knew they got upset, had emotions, feelings, thoughts, etc. I really thought they were just like breathing teddy bears. At the zoo you just see animals hanging out all depressed and not giving a fuck

Small little facts about animals like "pigs are pets in a lot of houses and act just like dogs" makes you realize that they actually think and feel

IDK. For 14 year old me I was having a mind blowing realization just hanging out with dogs and having them wag their tails when I was over

A buddy of mine was explaining how the factory farming system was not an issue at all. I said "you realize millions of animals are literally tortured while knee deep in their own shit and suffer immense and unimaginable pain? and that these animals sentient? does it not strike you as slightly messed? Especially when we have the tools to raise them properly and some what healthy before we kill them?". His response was "'Sentient'? hahahaha my ass. Barely. They are all about as smart as rocks"

TBH animals are pretty dumb compared to humans. But they are conscious. And from your post you DEFINATELY know that and recognize it. But most people I have talked to about the yulin dog festival, factory farming, etc. all seem to forget that completely. The idea that most cows, pigs etc. are about as conscious as dogs

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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: topdog82]
    #23230137 -

How many times has that elephant been whipped and shocked to pull that off?


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Re: Elephant paints a self-portrait and writes its name with its trunk [Re: topdog82]
    #23230141 -

lol I don't understand what is so difficult for people to grasp about the idea that the video was only posted to demonstrate the intelligence of the elephants, irrespective to the intent of the people who are running the show


in any case according to snopes.com there is someone guiding them to make each stroke. I don't know to what extent that is true. I still believe elephants are capable of significant levels of abstraction and self-awareness.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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