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Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Novelty * 1
    #22998861 -

There was a thread here that was made recently which I cannot find,
where someone is asking if novelty -- defined as the quality of being new, original, or unusual. -- existed or could exist in the universe (something like that not sure on the exact wording).

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the question, but, isn't it a bit self-evident that novelty not only exists, but is fundamental to change (time)?

One merely has to look outside for a few minutes, present-minded, to see the change I'm describing which we have always described using words like 'time'. try and predict what you will see in the next 5 minutes.
Novelty here, could perhaps even more simply be understood as that which hasn't happened before, which happens in the right-now, and settles into happening and custom.
Obviously everything which happens right-now, hasn't happened before (or it would be the past), and is thus novel ---

What got me to understand novelty as a measurement in the universe (it was a eureka moment, for myself) was thinking about time, and if 'time' as we know it is an illusion as everyones always saying, than what would be the most objective way to measure/define time?

So, I stopped thinking about 'time' as anything other than what it was objectively, and from that I could only determine that time is change.

Without change, there is no time, and yet without time there is still change (think about particles moving at the speed of light -- there is no time for them as we understand it, but there is change.)

So, change is fundamental to time as we know it, and what is change?

established 'happeneds' interacting with each other in the present 'happening', leading to novel 'happeneds' and further and more complex 'happenings'.

Once you fully understand this, the fact remains that novelty is a measurable unit in the universe, and obviously an important one.

T. Mckenna actually does a good job explaining it -- but you won't understand what he is talking about until you have the realization yourself.

Personally, I think he got the "aha!" understanding of the basic principles but somewhere a long the way, he got lost and didn't fully understand what he was talking about. (given he predicted the end of 'time' to be in 2012) if you truly understand novelty theory then its obvious that 'time' doesn't stop -- it accelerates.

if you look deep enough into novelty theory -- the logical implications are huge and thus far, have been correct.
For example, we have relatively recently discovered (I think 07?) that the expansion of the universe is accelerating and this came as a huge surprise to physicists.
If you follow the logic behind novelty theory -- the accelerated expansion of the universe is to be expected, if not required --

Another example, I was able to work out on a more 'science' level that quantum entanglement is fundamental to time --- very 'duh' if you think about it, but I made a post about time and quantum entanglement here on the shroomery a month or so before this was announced as a scientific discovery.

Its just so weird that nobody has really taken 'novelty' as a measurement seriously...given its one of the most objective happenings in the universe -- and science loooves objectivity.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

Edited by hTx (03/12/16 12:02 PM)

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Re: Novelty [Re: hTx]
    #22998933 -

Could you explain again your thesis about how time and quantum entanglement are related (or equivalent)?


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Novelty [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #22999274 -

http://phys.org/news/2015-05-spacetime-built-quantum-entanglement.html


Quote:
Lets call all happenings, objects and interactions in the universe 'events' well what is happening is that in the present, there seems to be a sort of force of novel events, where the interaction of all prior events is happening creating novel events which become "stuck" or built upon..In entanglement, every 'event', every particle becomes connected to every other particle or 'event' that crosses its path..even across vast distances, instantly.

in the quantum world we can say the wave collapses into a definite one or the other and that events in the present stack on top of the collapsed wave function of the past. If the universe started from something essentially very very tiny, then the entire universe is essentially quantum entangled particles.

There is a sort of evolution occurring in the present where many possible events arise at once, but ultimately collapse into one arrow of time. This process leads to time as we know it..and I feel is the real reason behind the accelerating expansion of the universe.

Not the big bang, at least not how many physicists today picture the big bang.

It was definitely a 'big bang' of creation and expansion of time-space, but that can be attributed to the accelerating complexity nature of the universe.

--hTx


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

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Re: Novelty [Re: hTx]
    #22999558 -

:thumbup:


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Novelty [Re: hTx]
    #23001297 -

Quote:
There was a thread here that was made recently which I cannot find,
where someone is asking if novelty -- defined as the quality of being new, original, or unusual. -- existed or could exist in the universe


...this thread?

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22947133

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Re: Novelty [Re: hTx]
    #23001832 -

Pretty interesting.

I was writing that to question what lies beneath this outward perception of events - the objective observation of change itself.

I was just wondering if two things change in different ways outwardly BUT according to the same equation inwardly. Thus I wonder wether novelty is perhaps just a byproduct of something constant.

Furthermore - just for fun - I wonder what holding that equation would allow us to do.

It seems to me we can't make change, but we can to certain extents steer it.

Maybe its a weak analogy, but

We don't make computers, we steered (and to certain extents were steered by) our natural surroundings into forming that very computer. None the less what needs and abilities that computer fullfills and provides to us is perhaps the same of what a previous invention fullfilled and provided.

What that need in relation to its consequent satisfactions implies to a certain situation stays the same.

Thus, once something is formed from something else, the product that forms isn't new in it's implication to us, but merely the implementation of the "constant" is changed when it is forced to do so - yet, abides to and satisfies the rules of some kind of underlying circular narative that extents to an infinite microscopic level.

If we look at cause and reaction and their relation to eachother in isolated terms - can they be deduced to an elementary formula?

A recipe for change?

The answers to our problems and our problems in themselves on a fundamental level reincarnates into different forms but of the same implication in order to cause something to go - somewhere. That "somewhere" is ever escaping our grasp. And we are trying to find it. Why are we trying to grasp it? Instead of moving along with it?

In conclusion, if we know that the play between disatisfaction and satisfaction (perhaps the driving force behind change) are two intertwined entities never being able to be confined or concluded - how can we control change to reach a stage of acceleration within ourselves to move along and steer the "somewhere"?

Can we create disatisfaction purposefully in order to bring satisfaction into effect?

Can we exist in balance between these poles?

Aren't we already moving along, perhaps? As we ourselves are part of change - aren't we - as we exist in relation to it - in fact standing still?

Can we control where we stand within change?

Edited by remake (03/13/16 12:23 PM)

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Re: Novelty [Re: remake]
    #23001892 -

This thread is making my morning. Thank you, all.


--------------------

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius

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Re: Novelty [Re: hTx]
    #23002374 -

hTx said:
So, I stopped thinking about 'time' as anything other than what it was objectively, and from that I could only determine that time is change.


Bingo. Existence is the present moment. Time is an artifact of the way we witness change in our environment.


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Novelty [Re: fireworks_god]
    #23002427 -

fireworks_god said:
Time is an artifact of the way we witness change in our environment.


Very true.  A consequence of the way our brains process memory.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: Novelty [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23002565 -

Also. What does it mean for us to have the ability to percieve change in the first place without in some repect having a grasp on some kind of constant awareness?

What's holding us back from inducing evolution? Flowing with the system?

As you say, if time is infact determined by change, why don't we change faster?

What happens at the speed of light?

Why are we thinking about change instead of thinking within it?

Edited by remake (03/13/16 12:57 PM)

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Re: Novelty [Re: fireworks_god]
    #23002659 -

fireworks_god said:
hTx said:
So, I stopped thinking about 'time' as anything other than what it was objectively, and from that I could only determine that time is change.


Bingo. Existence is the present moment. Time is an artifact of the way we witness change in our environment.


Nailed it.


--------------------

"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius

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Re: Novelty [Re: remake]
    #23096280 -

FranniePilgrim said:
Also. What does it mean for us to have the ability to percieve change in the first place without in some repect having a grasp on some kind of constant awareness?

What's holding us back from inducing evolution? Flowing with the system?

As you say, if time is infact determined by change, why don't we change faster?

What happens at the speed of light?

Why are we thinking about change instead of thinking within it?



don't you realize how much everything is changing all the time?


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

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Re: Novelty [Re: hTx]
    #23100104 -

hTx said:
Obviously everything which happens right-now, hasn't happened before (or it would be the past), and is thus novel ---




That's a cool concept!  Everything that happens is novel.

It reinforces the fact every moment is fresh and new and full of possibilities.

So often we view the passage of time as a burden, without considering what it has to offer.

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Re: Novelty [Re: hTx]
    #23105336 -

I do...its just that it seems as if, regardless of constant change, we interperet the "new" with that which we have come to know about the "old". So - to what extent are we interperting new experiences with the language of the past?

Not being constantly in a state of utter overwhelment, and being able to experience boredom, says something deeper than continuous novel events to me - at least, again, as we generally think of them (as opposed to how we actually perceive/experience them).

Edited by remake (04/11/16 12:06 AM)

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Re: Novelty [Re: remake] * 1
    #23107805 -

FranniePilgrim said:
... we interperet the "new" with that which we have come to know about the "old". So - to what extent are we interperting new experiences with the language of the past?



To a significant extent. That's our habit. It's a functional trait, but it
has the power to close our mind and limit us in significant ways.

Buddhist practice embraces "Beginners mind" as a means to open up our world
and see all of the possibilities, without the baggage of our past experince.


"In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert’s there are few.”

Shunryu Suzuki

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Re: Novelty [Re: remake]
    #23125401 -

FranniePilgrim said:
I do...its just that it seems as if, regardless of constant change, we interperet the "new" with that which we have come to know about the "old". So - to what extent are we interperting new experiences with the language of the past?

Not being constantly in a state of utter overwhelment, and being able to experience boredom, says something deeper than continuous novel events to me - at least, again, as we generally think of them (as opposed to how we actually perceive/experience them).


Well, nobodies denying the past here, as you say, novelty is viewed through the lens of "the old" (I call this custom), but thats seems to be more a consequence of structure (the new becoming old) then anything which disproves novelty.

I feel, as humans (#1 novelty producer on the planet) we get bored when we arent in line with our destiny for novelty.

And yet, we are creatures of habit and become and behave in customary ways as we age.

You seem to be


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

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Re: Novelty [Re: hTx]
    #23125879 -

So basically,

You get one chance and the world is shit and your going to die and get boring?

What defines success? Sex? Fame? Power?

You can give love without feeling it. Say words without meaning them.

We are very strange creatures. Very weird and not habitual at heart.

But, point I was trying to make was that we say things are "novel" - yet - we don't believe it.

I might not feel the next part. But it does not deminish its intent:

I hope all is well with you. And believe it or not. You are special beyond belief, and do not require anything outside of you to make you so.

I know I'm repeating these positive words. But even if they're just words, why not say them? Why not say and do positive things?

We talk about problems, but did you know you can talk about problems without becoming dragged down by the emotions we think they must instill?

Death. Why sad? We know everything is going to be okay thereafter, no? We want to...Why don't we?

Edited by remake (04/17/16 12:03 AM)

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Re: Novelty [Re: remake]
    #23126784 -

FranniePilgrim said:
But, point I was trying to make was that we say things are "novel" - yet - we don't believe it.



Reminds me of the phrase, "Same shit, different day"

I frequently hear this nonsensical comment, when a "problem" arises . . . "It's always something!"

It's funny, when something unexpected happens, we often become irritated or mad.

And when things don't appear to change, we feel bored.

It seems we have a passionate love affair with dissatisfaction.

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Re: Novelty [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #23133177 -

Culture follows a paradox of seeking novelty while retreating to custom.


If you look closely, it seems everything is doing this.
Maybe everything is and the effect is  magnified when it comes to something more obviously on an information level such as culture.

Forgive me if I wax poetical, here I don't know how else to describe this.
Everything is dying as it was and reborn as it is in the now.
There's this striving to remain, to exist, to ensure rebirth.
I have felt it. I feel it.
I will see it again.
This paradox at the heart of life is consistent with the pattern of change described in novelty theory, its simply the way it is.
Everything follows this pattern.


--------------------
zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes
Light up the darkness.

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