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 Agent Cooper
veteran
Registered: 08/03/00
Posts: 210
Loc: right behind you
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 novelty theory & sept 11 
#542040 - 02/06/02 01:34 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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To those who subscribe this theory: Just curious, was there a sharp increase in novelty on September eleventh?
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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 Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: Agent Cooper]
#542053 - 02/06/02 01:44 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Interesting question. I'm a partial subscriber, but I haven't checked the relationship between sept. 11 and the novelty theory out. Actually, I don't know where one would go to check out a particular date. Unfortunately, my guess would be that nothing happened, or that there was no great fluctuation. Then again, it wouldn't have to be that great a fluctation, considering that hordes of people die every day, there are terrorist attacks occuring in various parts of the world, and only 3000 or so people died in this one. (From a global perspective, sept. 11 was really not that exciting at all. That doesn't include all the crappy reprecussions of course, just the event itself.)
Sorry to get your hopes up. I bet you saw that little blue number and thought this was going to be an answer to your question.
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Edited by Ulysees (02/06/02 01:46 AM)
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Anonymous
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 Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: Ulysees]
#542075 - 02/06/02 02:16 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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what's the novelty theory ?
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: Anonymous]
#542164 - 02/06/02 03:34 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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McKenna developed a computer program that "predicted" a lot of the major events in history, such as the birth of Christ. It's some cool stuff, though to my understanding it's not entirely correct, and McKenna himself admitted later on in his life that he was a little too eager and was biased on some of it... (long story that I don't really know that well short.)
There was a good interview by Art Bell, but I don't think it's in his show archives anymore. I'll check my link... http://artbell.com/topics.html
I couldn't find the interview, though it should be in there somewhere, Goodnight.
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Edited by Ulysees (02/06/02 04:25 AM)
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 Divine_Madness
member
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 182
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 18 years, 7 months
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: Ulysees]
#542392 - 02/06/02 11:13 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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But if you look at how big the impact was on human being, not the size of the disaster, but how everyone reacted, it was one mayor happening which if you ask me should certainly be visible in the time wave. The after effect for human consiousness was much more huge than any disaster, as far as I know.
I tried to see if there was anything special with it at some pic of it, but didnt see anything. Though, I dont really know how it works, so...
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its all placebo
Edited by Divine_Madness (02/06/02 11:21 AM)
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Timeleech
addict
Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 590
Loc: Norway
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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That's right. Death doesn't equal novelty. you can download the program, although it might be a bit hard to find nowadays. Do a search on "Timewave Zero" and any other keywords that seem logical to you.
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Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org
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skaMariaPastora
Utopiate
Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 443
Loc: MA
Last seen: 20 years, 2 months
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: Ulysees]
#542588 - 02/06/02 02:07 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't really buy into the fact that certain novel events are "predictable" by the novelty theory because whether a certain event is novel or not is not very well defined. I think the theory has a lot of merit as a general trend in the universe. Originally in the time of the big bang there was just energy, then hydrogen and helium, then heavier elements, then molecules, then biology, and now consciousness. It is an accelerating trend of increasing novelty for sure, and it is reasonable to believe that eventually this novelty will reach an infinite value (Timewave Zero, predicted to occur on December 21, 2012). But the trend toward novelty is statistical, it just says that novelty will tend to increase over time. I don't think it is reasonable to assume this can predict individual events. But yes, I think 9/11 and the policy and attitudes that followed can be seen in terms of novelty theory and is part of an acceleration that will supposedly be seen in the decade to come.
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: Timeleech]
#543170 - 02/07/02 12:03 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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You're right, death doesn't equal novelty. I still think a spike generated by sept. 11 would be rather small compared to a spike generated by the victims of the holocaust, Hiroshima, etc... If you could isolate it to an American perspective instead of a global perspective, the fluctuation would bu massive.
I could of course be wrong. The theory isn't even all that solid. There was one scientist who examined the software very closely, looked at all the calculations and whatnot, and "proved" that it wouldn't work. McKenna himself met with him and accepted it for the most part. I might be off on the details, I read it all awhile back.
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Ulysees
Power of Lard
Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: Ulysees]
#543171 - 02/07/02 12:04 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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On second thought, I'm probably wrong.
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Timeleech
addict
Registered: 10/04/01
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Loc: Norway
Last seen: 19 years, 9 months
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: Ulysees]
#543203 - 02/07/02 12:36 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I agree. And while I don't believe the theory 100%, I'll defend the theory some more nevertheless 
I suppose that what the timewave really measures would be some force of novelty, and that it's effect on us humans is somewhat delayed. Think of the ebb and flow of the ocean. The moon drags the water towards it, but there is inertia, so it takes a little time for the water to flow in and out. That's why I suppose details and small fluctuations wouldn't be very accurate.
Besides, if the formula is based on the King Wen sequence, I ching, in my mind it fits well with the chinese mentality, somehow. The ebb and flow of the Dao.
Perhaps, perhaps not. It's an interesting theory nonetheless.
>On second thought, I'm probably wrong.
Well, Einsteing called the cosmological constant his greatest blunder. But scientists have repeatedly welcomed it and debunked it. The real thing behind it all is probably a lot more weird & complex.
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--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org
Edited by Timeleech (02/07/02 12:38 AM)
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chodamunky
Cheers!
Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 2,030
Loc: sailing the seas of chees...
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: Timeleech]
#1314256 - 02/17/03 12:11 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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I just got the program, typed in 9/11/02 and sure enough, the event happened right at the bottom of a trough, this means that novelty ended, and habit was on a sharp rise. The funny thing with the sept 11 date, is that in the program it predicted the change to happen at 9:22 am, exactly in the midst of all the planes falling out of the sky!
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: chodamunky]
#1314362 - 02/17/03 12:57 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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My friend and I were just discussing novelty theory today in my car and heh we were both agreeing that the timewave is a bit wild, but the general theory of increasing novelty is pretty cool.. looks like another point goes towards that insane timewave 
fuckin Terence, man I loved that dude
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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Dogomush
Barbless Aryan
Registered: 10/05/02
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: chodamunky]
#1314404 - 02/17/03 01:08 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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9:22 in what time zone?
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 12 days
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: chodamunky]
#1314409 - 02/17/03 01:09 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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yeah what time-zone are you in chodamunky :-D
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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nubious
1up on the rest
Registered: 10/20/02
Posts: 534
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: Strumpling]
#1314460 - 02/17/03 01:25 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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for those of you too lazy to search, I found this link pretty interesting.
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No one knows the worth of innocence till he knows it is gone forever, and that money can't buy it back. Not the saint, but the sinner that repenteth, is he to whom the full length and breadth, and height and depth, of life's meaning is revealed. Good and evil loose all objective meaning and are seen as equally necessary and contrasting elements in the masterpiece that is the universe.
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Dogomush
Barbless Aryan
Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: chodamunky]
#1314918 - 02/17/03 04:28 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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dude, I just mapped sept 11 and I found that it was at the top of a peak at 6 AM my time which is 9 AM new york time. Why do we have different results? Is your screen upside down? Oh by the way, there's a peaak on the 18th (tomorrow) and a trough on the 19th. I have NO idea what it could posibly mean. The whole thing makes no sense to me. I don't understand at all what is being graphed.
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Dogomush
Barbless Aryan
Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,286
Loc: The Canadian west coast
Last seen: 18 years, 2 months
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: chodamunky]
#1314927 - 02/17/03 04:30 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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I just got the program, typed in 9/11/02 and sure enough, the event happened right at the bottom of a trough, this means that novelty ended
Errr... what year is it dude? Now I know why we got different graphs. 9/11 happened in 2001 right?
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 12 days
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: Dogomush]
#1315201 - 02/17/03 05:38 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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lol..
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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LucidDreams
Soul
Registered: 10/24/02
Posts: 35
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: Ulysees]
#1316386 - 02/18/03 08:34 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Novelty basically means "density of connectednes"
If the wave is at zero there is absolute connection, unity, oneness.
The drastic drops into novelty is when the connectedness makes it all flow together the highs are when the thing is "breaking appart".
Both are needed to create this wonderful piece of art.
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 12 years, 12 days
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Re: novelty theory & sept 11 [Re: LucidDreams]
#1316914 - 02/18/03 12:43 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Terence defined novelty as complexity..
Dictionary.com said this:
The quality of being novel; newness.
Something new and unusual; an innovation.
A small mass-produced article, such as a toy or trinket.
and:
originality by virtue of being new and surprising
Something novel; a new or strange thing.
Although an increases in connectedness is rarely a bad thing..
Novelty theory basically says that as time passes, habbit gives way to novelty, meaning that repetition and "concrete" processes will increasingly birth new qualities and functions where there were none before.... seems to kind of tie in with chaos theory.
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
Edited by Strumpling (02/18/03 12:46 PM)
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