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Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding?
    #22635766 -

So it looks like those damn vegans are starting to get to me lately..I'm going to be following a vegetarian diet starting tomorrow, gauge how I feel compared to my current diet and slowly transition to veganism if I start feeling or seeing any kind of health benefits with vegetarianism.

Does anyone here who follows either kind of diet lift? Do you feel it is harder to gain mass without meat in your diet? How much protein do you eat and what're your favorite protein sources? I've had the impression for a while that the amount of protein needed to build mass is a bit exaggerated, so I tend to try to get in between .8-1 gram/lb of body weight, but it seems it's definitely going to be harder to get in even that amount without meat, and especially without any dairy too if I go that route.

Also, post any other pros/cons to these diets you've noticed personally if ya feel like it. I'm just experimenting right now, it's gonna be hard as hell to stick with though, I'm sure.:smirk:

I'm doin research on this elsewhere too, but I figured I'd get some input from here as well cuz I know there's probably at least a few of you guys here.


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Edited by Eminence (12/09/15 10:12 PM)

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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: Eminence] * 1
    #22639513 -

From personal experience it's bs for majority of the population. We evolved eating meat. Just eat the right meats. That being said I know some individuals who claim vegan bodybuilding is the shit, but these are also the same people who think a 185 bench for 8 is impressive. I felt low on energy and Lifts went nowhere even had some days where I felt weaker. And after the research I've done into these vegan bodybuilders and pro athletes, I'll keep it to 2 simple things. Most of them switched to vegan after a meat based died majority of their lives then switch and go on about being vegan (this is false advertisement just like before after pics for the workout infomercials like P90X.

The amount of veggies/nuts I had to eat to meet protein requirements was ridiculous and imo not possible at all with my bodies needs to gain steadily.

Also fun fact, animal based protein contains the amino acid leucine is a key amino acid to building muscle that plant proteins do not contain (incomplete protein source)


IMO it's a stupid diet/fitness fad. This is right up there with the girl who tried getting me to do yoga saying it was a really good workout. Slow paced and boring imo. Felt even antsier after words and did cleans and squats.


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FREE BURKE

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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: Mescalean]
    #22639596 -

Didn't expect this thread to get any responses, even forgot I made it, of course you would be the guy to actually respond to this :lol:

I'm not going into it with high expectations, just a little experiment. I agree with you, I don't think I know many guys that are actually very strong who also follow a vegan diet..but they do talk about how they feel better than when they ate meat, but at the same time I've known people who went vegan and quit after a while too who said they didn't feel much of a difference (only admitted it after they quit lol). I really don't know how many of those studies about veganism being better for you are true, I'm sure meat people eat today is definitely less healthy than it was before factory farming became a thing.

But I figure a few weeks should be enough to see if it has any affect on how I feel, but still not enough to see any affect on any change in strength/size..unless I lose some of either. If I start getting weaker I'm quitting though and I guess I'll just put in more money into trying to stick to organic meats or something. If I actually do end up feeling better and see no difference in progress (cuz I know it ain't gonna help make me stronger) then I'm gonna try to stick with it.


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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: Eminence]
    #22639656 -

I'm vegan and I play basketball at least three times a week. I'll give you my two cents.

Within a vegan diet there can be huge differences in protein intake.

If you eat lots of rice, peas, seitan, lentils, tofu, black beans, amaranth, quinoa, tempeh, oatmeal, etc. you'll get plenty of protein to work with.

If you only eat veggies and fruit and salads, you won't get enough protein.

But the hardest part might be getting enough calories in a day. You'll have to eat shitloads of food as the caloric density of plant based foods is a lot lower than that of animal products.

Eating all the time can be quite a chore.

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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22639735 -

Yeah I knew that would probably be one of the more annoying aspects of switching over, shouldn't be too big a deal though cuz I fuckin love oatmeal beans and nuts. I drink a lot of shakes and tend to add peanut butter to a lot of stuff so that'll definitely help a lot as well with cals lol. Do you do much weight training though or just basketball?


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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: Eminence]
    #22639758 -

No weights at all. I'm built like Corey Brewer :lol:


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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22639834 -

My main issue was getting 1 gram to 1.5 per lb of body weight (yeah yeah yeah we all know the bs 30 gram at a time, horrible study that forgot to take multiple factors into account, plus their are hormonal advantages to excess protein.)

Creatine, found in meat, is a huge source of energy since it is converted into ATP and stored in muscle.

I count way more advantages to eating a mixed diet of meat grains and veggies for a body builder than just plant matter.

Why exactly do you want to make the switch OP?

I still have yet to see someone who got jacked as all fucking hell off a vegan diet.


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FREE BURKE

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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: Mescalean]
    #22639954 -

Well luckily I've realized I don't need all that much protein to see progress, I used to try to eat the same general amount of protein as you, around 1.5-2 grams/lb but I didn't really notice any difference when I dropped it down to what I eat now, around .8-1 gram/lb and I noticed adding in more carbs to fill those calories worked just as well for me, maybe even slightly better.

Forgot about creatine though honestly, I never supplement it. I guess if I notice any decrease in strength it'll probably be from that as long as I cover everything else right. I'm just curious though about other health benefits I hear people talk about, I already know there's not going to be an advantage to not eating meat when it comes to strength or size, I just also wanted to see if cutting out meat would be a disadvantage though. All this talk of these ailments from eating meat just got me interested in testing it out but like I said I don't believe meat in itself is bad, just the way it's processed today and probably the amount of it some people eat.

Now that I think about it, this is day 1, maybe I should hold off for a few days or so and try to get a physical and get another one to compare to after a little while on this diet.


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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: GoldenEye]
    #22639957 -

Hah I've always thought it'd be pretty awkward to have such a tall lanky physique. That's basketball for ya though.


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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: Eminence]
    #22640001 -

I don't know any better. It works for me :shrug:

I tried traditional bodybuilding diets and weights long ago but I never gained anything. A bit more toning maybe.

I'm physically unable to gain or lose weight it seems.

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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: GoldenEye] * 1
    #22640108 -

I think the most important think for being healthy op is a varied diet. Fresh water fish, poultry, wild game such as venison. Majority of these ailments the vegans like touting are backed by mediocre studies.

I think build has a lot to do with it. 6'1" 235 as of yesterday 13 percent body fat (bulking i'll maybe start worry if it ever gets to 14, never does tho). So even at just 1g/lb thats 235grams of COMPLETE proteins from plants (plant proteins are not a full range of aminos so you have to combine, even more food, to make a complete protein.) Types of workouts may play a role too. I do a lot of olympic/power lifting (power cleans, dead lift kind of shit) Which is taxing on the body. Added My gym sessions range from an hour thirty to 2 hours depending on the day, split, and which isolation/supplementation exercises.

And to give an idea of where I'm at I did body weight dips the other day ( not the bench dips the real dips) with 2 45's attached to the belt for 3 full range of motion reps. (just did the math 325lbs total weight.) Not bad for a 24 year old ex junkie whos been clean for 2 years, given muscle memory from playing football and all that. Just eat a clean varied diet man and even then spoil yourself now and again. Icecream whatever your poison is. No amount of vegetables will make you live forever man.


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FREE BURKE

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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: Mescalean]
    #22640264 -

Mescalean said:
From personal experience it's bs for majority of the population. We evolved eating meat. Just eat the right meats. That being said I know some individuals who claim vegan bodybuilding is the shit, but these are also the same people who think a 185 bench for 8 is impressive. I felt low on energy and Lifts went nowhere even had some days where I felt weaker. And after the research I've done into these vegan bodybuilders and pro athletes, I'll keep it to 2 simple things. Most of them switched to vegan after a meat based died majority of their lives then switch and go on about being vegan (this is false advertisement just like before after pics for the workout infomercials like P90X.

The amount of veggies/nuts I had to eat to meet protein requirements was ridiculous and imo not possible at all with my bodies needs to gain steadily.

Also fun fact, animal based protein contains the amino acid leucine is a key amino acid to building muscle that plant proteins do not contain (incomplete protein source)


IMO it's a stupid diet/fitness fad. This is right up there with the girl who tried getting me to do yoga saying it was a really good workout. Slow paced and boring imo. Felt even antsier after words and did cleans and squats.



The before and after pics of p 90 x are not bs.  That program works wonders.


You probably weren't doing yoga properly if you didn't get a good feeling from it.  With my heart rate monitor and properly doing about 80 mins of yoga, which is slow paced but AMAZING on your joints and muscles compared to fast paced high impact stuff, I would kill anywhere from 900-1100 calories.

It's all about form and focus.

The poses of yoga will work out muscles you've never used before, and it will stretch you in ways you never thought you could. Every time it gets easier and you start to sweat more. It's a completely perfect way to exercise. 

The girl that showed you yoga was probably doing it for the fad, not for the healing building and cleansing. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it, I've never felt better and more relieved after doing proper yoga.

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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: vandago]
    #22640330 -

Idk, it's stretching to me man :shrug:

Taxing workout for me is moving 200+lbs from the floor to my collar bone using hip drive.

To each their own though man. I'm personally someone with a lot of anxious energy so lifting has always been outlet for me, much more positive than other things


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FREE BURKE

Edited by Mescalean (12/10/15 11:10 PM)

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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: Mescalean]
    #22640651 -

I commented on mescalean's statements in another thread. I grew up in a vegatarian family. I lived a junk food vegatarian diet, clean food vegatarian, clean food vegan, junk food vegan, paleo, bodybuilding, higher carb paleo etc.

I have tried every single diet and excercise combination over the course of 4 years and experimented with my body to a ridiculous extent. i felt 10x better on a vegan diet than a bodybuilding one. I kept experimenting and found a diet that looks mostly vegan and low meat is what my body functions best on. And lifting 3 times a week and doing more yoga helps me feel the best (NOT lifting 5 times a week). I also have been not even going to failure on sets more than 5.

I could go on, but the majority of conventional fitness advice I found the exact opposite to work best. Thats the key. Dont focus on the latest trend or concept. try the vegan diet and dont go in with opinions. The human population could not at large function on no saturated fat, and no animal protein. But it works for me. the idea that you "need this many grams of protein and DURRRR vegans can't build muscle" is dumb. Eating tons of protein makes me feel dull, fat, bloated, shitty, and stpid. No joke. On the flipside, vegans think "DUR all animal products cause cancer and you dont need them". Tell that to the dude who goes vegan and suffers low libido and no morning wood for years.

YOU NEED TO FIND WHAT WORKS FOR YOU. DIFF PEOPLE WORK ON DIFF DIETS

I found that eating 60% carb, 15% protein, 25% fat works amazing. I dont track calories, but this is approximated. I eat beef liver, salmon, sardines, eggs, and full fat kefir in small amounts. I supplements with fish oil and have grass fed butter with meals. I also have collagen protein. Sometimes I even go vegan from a week and feel great

I assume you get the idea here. But I need higher fat for my dick to work, brain to feel clear, and joints to flow. Also, protein constipates me and makes me gassy and literally makes me smell gross. So I have even pushed it to 10% and feel fine,making solid gains. Carbs make me feel good so restricting them is not a choice. this is the result of 4 years of experimentation. Try diff things

For me, I tried the vegan diet and made swell gains. I ate low protein and felt good. If you feel like shit, just dont do it. And if you choose to eat meat, go for sustainable, ethical meats. The science on grassfed meats versus conventional is mind blowing. If its more expensive, eat less. Less grass fed beef is better than tons of grain fed. For health, AND for animals

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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: vandago]
    #22640695 -

vandago said:
Mescalean said:
From personal experience it's bs for majority of the population. We evolved eating meat. Just eat the right meats. That being said I know some individuals who claim vegan bodybuilding is the shit, but these are also the same people who think a 185 bench for 8 is impressive. I felt low on energy and Lifts went nowhere even had some days where I felt weaker. And after the research I've done into these vegan bodybuilders and pro athletes, I'll keep it to 2 simple things. Most of them switched to vegan after a meat based died majority of their lives then switch and go on about being vegan (this is false advertisement just like before after pics for the workout infomercials like P90X.

The amount of veggies/nuts I had to eat to meet protein requirements was ridiculous and imo not possible at all with my bodies needs to gain steadily.

Also fun fact, animal based protein contains the amino acid leucine is a key amino acid to building muscle that plant proteins do not contain (incomplete protein source)


IMO it's a stupid diet/fitness fad. This is right up there with the girl who tried getting me to do yoga saying it was a really good workout. Slow paced and boring imo. Felt even antsier after words and did cleans and squats.



The before and after pics of p 90 x are not bs.  That program works wonders.


You probably weren't doing yoga properly if you didn't get a good feeling from it.  With my heart rate monitor and properly doing about 80 mins of yoga, which is slow paced but AMAZING on your joints and muscles compared to fast paced high impact stuff, I would kill anywhere from 900-1100 calories.

It's all about form and focus.

The poses of yoga will work out muscles you've never used before, and it will stretch you in ways you never thought you could. Every time it gets easier and you start to sweat more. It's a completely perfect way to exercise. 

The girl that showed you yoga was probably doing it for the fad, not for the healing building and cleansing. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with it, I've never felt better and more relieved after doing proper yoga.


This is another good example. Yoga worked like magic to me. the impact its made to my life is ridiculous. Saying yoga is a workout like lifting to me is like saying justin bieber is music like bach. They are in two different cateogries of intelligence/complexity to me.

But the key is that its just me. Others try yoga and it just never sticks. DIFF THINGS WORK FOR DIFF PEOPLE. Its that simple. Try things out and explore. See what works

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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: Mescalean]
    #22641103 -

Mescalean said:
Idk, it's stretching to me man :shrug:

Taxing workout for me is moving 200+lbs from the floor to my collar bone using hip drive.

To each their own though man. I'm personally someone with a lot of anxious energy so lifting has always been outlet for me, much more positive than other things



It's stretching but not just stretching. And if you think that you are doing it wrong. I'd love to see you hold crane for 5 minutes lol. 

Most of the poses are done using your core, biceps, and quads if you hold them properly and breath properly.  And it's funny you mentioned p 90 x and yoga being bullshit in the same post, because yoga X is one of the hardest routines to complete in that entire program.  Try it once.  Actually try to, not just go through the motions. 

Here's my before and after from the first time I did p 90 x





And I cheated like hell through the program. If I would've ate a little more fat, and less late night snacks, I would've been bigger.

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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: vandago] * 1
    #22641253 -

Lol yoga is wayyyyyy more than stretching Hahahaha. If someone says yoga is stretching it's clear they don't understand it. Which is cool, it's just that yoga is incredibly complex and deep. Stretching is one tiny facet of it

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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: topdog82]
    #22641282 -

Ya when I get done with doing yoga, I am quivering from the tips of my toes to my head with the most amazing feeling of purge and growth at the same time.  People that say it's just stretching definitely haven't done more than basic yoga, and they don't grasp the form and concept. 

I have gotten so deep on yoga it's been beyond a level 5 mushroom trip at the end.....just at the mercy of the universe and every thing is beautiful.

I would have never stuck with yoga if it wasn't for p 90 x.  At first I was like fuck this, but after I started getting the hang of it I figured out how to get a real work out from it, and never looked back.

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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: Eminence]
    #22643932 -

I've been a vegetarian my whole life(was raised that way) and am a regular gymgoer and I eat to get big.

I'd say the main problems you will face is maintaining a low carb diet but you also have to watch out for your fat intake as well, you need to substitute meat for something else. Personally I need variation in my diet, can't eat steamed vegetables 7 days in a row, so I'd probably consume a lot more dairy than your average person, mostly milk, egg and cheese. As somebody else said in the thread already, you'll need to eat more food to sustain the same amount of calories so you'll need a new diet plan and probably recipes for things.

Some things I've found good for a gym diet is flavoured whey protein (chocolate or banofee or whatever you like). Its not vegan friendly like you're after, but I've seen soy protein isolate in stores that come in the same flavours, and that stuff is vegan friendly. I use it for recovery like most people do, but I also start and end my day with breakfast cereal or meusli, mix a scoop of protein powder ~30g into it and you've got more calories, more protein, and a better tasting meal, and if you have different flavours you can pick what you want that day.

I also use a product called Bob's Red Mill Vital Wheat Gluten, find this or a similar product, it's also called seitan which somebody else mentioned as well. It's basically baking flour that has been washed with water until all that is left is insoluble protein, it's about 80% protein and flavourless. You can use this flour to make low carb high protein bread. If it gets near water it will form a dough, so you can use it as a pastry replacement to make pizza or whatever. Instead of using water, you mix your sandwich spread (e.g. I would use mayonnaise) with the flour until it forms a dough, you still get the flavour of the sauce and a huge chunk of chewy protein that in your case would replace the meat on a sandwich. Sauces and spices in food will be your best friend.

I also take multivitamin tablets. Everyone probably should but I think its better to have than to have not.

In summary, you'll need more variety in your diet, you'll need to eat more, get good at preparing your food and look up recipes.

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Re: Vegetarian/vegan bodybuilding? [Re: Poll Na gColm]
    #22645048 -

quinoa, peanuts, peanut butter, protein enhanced whole grain noodles, protein bars are good sources of protein. quinoa has very few calories for how much protein it has in it. 


Eggs and dairy don't really make you a true vegetarian do they?

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