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 Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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 Vegan Diet and Building Muscle 
#7773384 - 12/18/07 10:59 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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This topic has been addressed in other threads in this forum (and recently in P&S  ), but I thought it deserved a thread of its' own.
There is a popular misconception that one cannot build muscle without consuming animal proteins. This is partially based upon the assertions in Francis Moore Lappe's book, "Diet for a Small Planet," which was the Bible for the 1970's vegetarian movement. Lappe claimed that it was essential to properly combine "incomplete" vegetable proteins at each meal in order to maintain health. She revised later editions of her book to rescind her assertions, as later research contradicted her claims.
It is entirely possible to obtain all the essential amino acids required for both health AND bodybuilding from a vegan diet. This does not require manic attention to proper combinations at each meal, but simply a varied diet which includes seeds, nuts, grains, pulses & legumes each week. Here are a few links which further demonstrate the scientific basis for my assertions:
http://www.health101.org/art_protein_propaganda.htm
http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/vegetarian_athletes.html
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler53.htm
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lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger
Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
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 Re: Vegan Diet and Building Muscle [Re: Veritas]
#7773458 - 12/18/07 11:17 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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okay you convinced me
i still think you are a smart alleck though
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Vegan Diet and Building Muscle [Re: Veritas]
#7773528 - 12/18/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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To Huehuecoyotl:
Quote:
In any case I have yet to see any evidence that a healthy vegan diet is any better than a healthy diet that includes a wide variety of foods including meat.
http://www.sdada.org/position.htm
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I have also read about this subject extensively, and the current accepted science tells me that protein IS needed to build muscle, and that without a good complete protein source it will not happen.
Agreed. However, plants ARE good sources of essential amino acids, and do not cause the negative health impact associated with animal proteins.
Quote:
When one seeks to lose weight one MUST create muscle to acquire long term weight loss. Weight loss can occur with a vegan diet, but without rebuilding the muscle lost in the process the fat will return because muscle burns fat.
Incorrect. Muscle uses calories. If your diet creates a calorie deficit, your body will burn stored fat to meet energy requirements. Increasing your lean muscle mass does increase your resting metabolic rate, but if you consume calories which meet your metabolic requirements, your body will not burn fat. If you consume excess calories, which is easy to do with calorie-dense animal products, your body will store these calories as fat.
A balanced vegan diet would provide the proportion of macronutrients required to build muscle. Additionally, plant-based proteins are generally lower-calorie, higher-bulk than animal proteins, resulting in feeling full on fewer calories--the ideal combination for effective weight loss. By utilizing plant-based proteins to fuel your exercise and muscle-building caloric requirements, you would also avoid the heart disease and cancer risks that have been linked to the consumption of meat and dairy products.
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole
Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Vegan Diet and Building Muscle [Re: Veritas]
#7774053 - 12/18/07 02:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago) |
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vegan bodybuilding is definately possible, however it takes alot of work and planning when it comes to your diet. too much for me. i watched a documentary on Shaolin monks and their training/lifestyle. OMG, those motherfuckers are incredibly strong and they are vegetarians, pretty close to vegan.
now vegetarian bodybuilding on the other hand, is easy as pie. if i didnt love seafood/poultry/lamb so damn much, i would be a vegetarian.
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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 Re: Vegan Diet and Building Muscle [Re: Veritas]
#7774462 - 12/18/07 04:28 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've posted this in P&S but I'll add it here because it makes for a good point.
Quote:
The biggest animals - elephants, hippopotamuses, giraffes, horses, gorillas, and rhinoceroses - all eat predominately green vegetables. Where do they get the protein necessary to grow so big? They get it from the greens they eat.
All protein on the planet is formed from the effect of sunlight on green plants. A cow doesn't eat another cow to get the protein necessary to build its muscles (which we call steak). The protein comes from the grass the cow eats.
Try to arm wrestle a gorilla. 
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Vegan Diet and Building Muscle [Re: Veritas]
#7774481 - 12/18/07 04:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'll think about going vegan if you send me nudes.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Vegan Diet and Building Muscle [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7775654 - 12/18/07 09:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cheesecake is NOT vegan. 
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 Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
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Re: Vegan Diet and Building Muscle [Re: AlteredAgain]
#7780469 - 12/20/07 05:23 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
The biggest animals - elephants, hippopotamuses, giraffes, horses, gorillas, and rhinoceroses - all eat predominately green vegetables. Where do they get the protein necessary to grow so big? They get it from the greens they eat.
You are comparing an apple to an orange. Elephants, hippo's, giraffes, horses, gorillas, and rhinoceroses are not humans. Just because many animals have the genetics needed to process vegetable matter for complete nutrition doesn't mean that all animals do. I'm not making a claim about humans, just pointing out the fallacy of your argument.
Also...
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Wildlife-2507/Hippos.htm:
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The hippo is a plant eating mammal. However, they are also very unpredictable, and have been known to eat meat (killed by other animals) occassionally.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061204101903AAblmxm:
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One misconception about the gorilla diet is that it contains no animal products. On the contrary, all of the great ape groups take in some animal protein, whether overtly or inadvertently, by consuming insects, insect eggs and the larvae that nest on the plants and fruits they eat.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Vegan Diet and Building Muscle [Re: Seuss]
#7780508 - 12/20/07 05:56 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was born with canine teeth. This means that my body was meant to ingest meat. I have replaced red meat with a lot of fish and sometimes chicken.
Take that you shrub munchers!
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JoseLibrado
return
Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Re: Vegan Diet and Building Muscle [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7780898 - 12/20/07 09:25 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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You were born with hands that can strangle, hands that can caress.
Which motion do you think the hands were meant to do?
I know i can go through life without strangling anyone, but carressing someone is something i cannot give up.
You do not have to stop eating meat,though you can stop needless suffering of animals.
Our hands can even make contraptions that can help us gather meat. WOuld you make one like this and run to kill your meat?
&autoplay=1
Were you aware this was happening on your behalf. And Did you know that there is farming that does not do this to the animals, that doesnt cage them up their hole lives only to suffer from broken feet after being forced to stand in one spot for 5 years?
Organic Agriculture
&autoplay=1
No one is saying it is evil or wrong to eat meat randall. Its all a matter of what you think you are, in relation to these pigs...are you a person who believes an animal should suffer this much??
I can only provide the reality of what you are responsible for. It is your decision, as is.
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The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.
And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.
Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.
Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Vegan Diet and Building Muscle [Re: JoseLibrado]
#7782620 - 12/20/07 06:03 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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It's nice being on top of the food chain. 
I'm not talking about the moral implications of eating meat from slaughterhouses. I'm talking about the natural diet of man and what nature intended us to eat. The fact that we have canines and the fact that we can digest meat means that we were meant to eat it. Now admittedly, Americans eat way too much meat (and the wrong kinds). We need to start replacing a lot of our red meats with fish and such. But, meat makes my body feel good (as do vegetables, fruits, grains, etc..). When I don't eat meat I start to lose weight and feel weak (I'm really skinny and have a high metabolism).
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Vegan Diet and Building Muscle [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7782761 - 12/20/07 06:37 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
The fact that we have canines and the fact that we can digest meat means that we were meant to eat it.
Actually, it just means we're capable of eating it. As omnivores, humans evolved as opportunistic eaters, meaning we're designed to eat whatever is available.
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Galvie_Flu
Registered: 06/30/02
Posts: 6,632
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Re: Vegan Diet and Building Muscle [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7783417 - 12/20/07 08:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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Canines are for gripping running prey and ripping raw flesh off of a fresh kill, not chewing on piece of chicken.
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LeftyBurnz
Mr. I Eat Butthole
Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 24,570
Loc: FL
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Re: Vegan Diet and Building Muscle [Re: Galvie_Flu]
#7784710 - 12/21/07 07:37 AM (16 years, 3 months ago) |
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you CAN eat play-doh. i dont think we were meant to eat it. 
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