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OfflineSeverance13
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Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics?
    #21832915 - 06/20/15 04:12 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Most free libraries including this type of information are terribly outdated. I could use some more data on this subject for my current therapist to peruse...however, I'm too poor for paper :b


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OfflineHippocampus
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: Severance13]
    #21833089 - 06/20/15 05:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Idk if there have been any recent books that are like manuals for psychotherapy.  MAPS website?


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OfflineSeverance13
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: Hippocampus]
    #21834084 - 06/20/15 09:26 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

MAPS has quite a few very good books on the subject, but they're all print, not electronic and piratable. Being poor is a pain..


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: Severance13]
    #21835836 - 06/21/15 08:31 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)
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Try this book


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: Severance13]
    #21837030 - 06/21/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

The one and only BE HERE NOW. Each of 3 component parts (Intro, Core Book [brown or yellow pages], Cookbook for a Sacred Life) intended to be read before, during, and after a trip, respectively. Interdenominational with a predominantly Hindu flavor. About Gnosis (Gyan/Jnana), the "Knowing" Witness wherein Knower, Knowledge, and Known are One. Still useful since my first look, late 1972.




--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (06/22/15 10:40 AM)


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OfflineSeverance13
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #21839186 - 06/21/15 08:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Try this book



Thank you man, I really appreciate it.
I'll check out Be Here Now


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21841926 - 06/22/15 02:44 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
The one and only BE HERE NOW. Each of 3 component parts (Intro, Core Book [brown or yellow pages], Cookbook for a Sacred Life) intended to be read before, during, and after a trip, respectively. Interdenominational with a predominantly Hindu flavor. About Gnosis (Gyan/Jnana), the "Knowing" Witness wherein Knower, Knowledge, and Known are One. Still useful since my first look, late 1972.







You really only need to read the intro once.  The core book (brown pages) is great to be read during the trip, and I've done so myriads of times... and then the cookbook is more of a reintegration thing, practices for daily living....  It's not realistic to adopt everything from the cookbook after one trip imho, but you may choose to add a thing or two, a meditation practice, a dietary change, etc., give up an unhealthy habit etc.  It all takes time, imho.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #21842214 - 06/22/15 04:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
The one and only BE HERE NOW. Each of 3 component parts (Intro, Core Book [brown or yellow pages], Cookbook for a Sacred Life) intended to be read before, during, and after a trip, respectively. Interdenominational with a predominantly Hindu flavor. About Gnosis (Gyan/Jnana), the "Knowing" Witness wherein Knower, Knowledge, and Known are One. Still useful since my first look, late 1972.







You really only need to read the intro once.  The core book (brown pages) is great to be read during the trip, and I've done so myriads of times... and then the cookbook is more of a reintegration thing, practices for daily living....  It's not realistic to adopt everything from the cookbook after one trip imho, but you may choose to add a thing or two, a meditation practice, a dietary change, etc., give up an unhealthy habit etc.  It all takes time, imho.




I agree, but I was writing to a first-timer, a newbie to BE HERE NOW.  I HAVE read the intro more than once, btw. There's a lot in it which Ram Dass clarified over the years. As to the Cookbook for a Sacred Life, it is a spiritual smorgasbord. You taste here and there, Taoist, Yogic, Gurdjieffian, Christian, etc. If one is attracted to opposites (like a lot of Jews who got into Buddhism, but owing to indoctrination would still not explore their own Jewish lineage or God-forbid investigate Christ), chances are that the spiritual trip would peter out in time. Not necessarily with Ram Dass' Hinduism, but with less profoundly-affected, the spiritual adventure would dry up as in the parable of the sower in the New Testament:

"That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.” - Matthew 13:1-9

And,

“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.” - Matthew 13:18-23

Dilletantes are like the seeds fallen on rocky ground. It may be that they have no roots or that they fail to perceive their own roots, so they abandon the whole trip. When spirituality became 'passe' in the late 70s, early 80s cocaine-money-materialism culture, few people braved the alienation from the popular culture. Very few people could stand alone on principle and past experience no matter how profound, when there is no culture to support that. The Grateful Dead served as a vehicle for a minority subculture until 1995, but since then, and culminating in 2015 (with the 50th anniversary of the band) there will soon be very few freaks (like me). Most people I knew who evidenced a commitment to some spiritual outlook (if not actual practice), fall into the category of seedlings that became choked by the thorns of worldliness. One particular person comes to mind - a totally obnoxious personal injury attorney who simply dismissed his psychedelic experiences as having been "Just a drug." "I HAVE to own a high performance car" was one of his more obvious expressions of rife materialism. Never a friend, he represents to me worldliness at its worst. He's showed up way late to a Passover seder with a nasty atheist girlfriend, both coked up, inflated and obnoxious as Hell. My own brother, never a seeker, made me promise that I'd never tell his wife that he took LSD. But asking me to help him obtain a kilo of coke in the early 80s when I moved to Miami was OK for the budding lawyer.  :hwbm:

It's been a very long time since I've seen people wearing Indian shirts, or malas, or anything of a Hippie aesthetic because all those trappings were little more than popular culture probably brought in by The Beatles. Talk about dated. :lol:  But beyond that, 'Peace & Love' has been regarded as no more than a meme from the 1960s instead of the Perennial Philosophy. I knew it was gonna be all downhill for the rest of my life when gold razor blades replaced humble multicolored plastic love beads in the late 70s. I confess that I miss the decade from mid 60s to mid 70s, but that, alas, is my own sad shortcoming. :sad: I have been at loggerheads with youth culture since the early days of break-dancing and the subsequent Hip-Hop culture, which while often rebellious against society, is never rebellious in any philosophically metaphysical way that I can discern IMO. So instead of seeing spirituality what I see is criminality. :shrug:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21842316 - 06/22/15 04:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Well, you know my opinion on that, that it has more to do with where you live than the era. I live in a neighborhood where friends come knock on my door at whim and I'll cheerfully answer and we can sit down and have a cup of tea and talk about Taoism, Yoga, Gurdjieff, and leave each other with a big hug.

Do you realize I can't even identify a Mercedes or a Ferrari?  I wouldn't know any better if you were were wearing Prada or Armani, these are just vague concepts to me :lol:...  Does that mean I'm out of touch with reality?  :shrug:  If so, IDGAF.

On a side note, from what I do know about you and your TV habits, I bet your wife at the least would enjoy watching Grace & Frankie on Netflix - TV series about a pair of aging women, with a very type A & type B personality contrast, whose husbands decide run off to be with each other.  Stars Lily Tomlin, Jane Fonda, Martin Sheen, Sam Waterston.... Truly powerful actresses, great writing... In the first episode the ladies take peyote :lol:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #21843223 - 06/22/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

We watched that show together and enjoyed it.
It would be very difficult to move from a sunny warm climate to a cold wet environment, after 30+ years, at 62 years of age, with a woman who would immediately succumb to Seasonal Affective Disorder. But you might be right about geography over temporality. Rose and I are both aware of the reputation that people out your way are qualitatively nicer by far than the guarded, hostile population of South Florida. Yesterday some POS checking out the house for sale across the street left a big bag of Burger King debris on the swale and drove off. A couple of hours ago a peasant-looking Haitian woman walked down the sidewalk in front of my house. I said hello, and she just stared at me. When the construction behind our house is completed and it becomes a Miami-Dade County park, I will look into the potential sale price of my house. But, I'm not going to sell until I've already purchased another house (probably with a bridge-loan). The question is always the same. Where?


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21843975 - 06/22/15 11:08 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Dunno mate.  My thoughts go to Austin, TX for a compromise on community and climate.  However it pans out, I hope you find a happy home.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #21844063 - 06/22/15 11:29 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Dunno mate.  My thoughts go to Austin, TX for a compromise on community and climate.  However it pans out, I hope you find a happy home.




My step-daughter lives in Dallas and took Rose to Austin. She did like it, although it is a tiny oasis in a Republican nightmare, with gun laws that make Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' seem liberal. You can shoot and kill a burglar who is no threat to you if you see him burgling your neighbor's house! How fucked up is that? I have acquaintances in my state and elsewhere who either carry 1-3 loaded guns on their person every day (they're NOT in law enforcement), or own as many as 40 guns. They are constantly trying to get me and my wife to buy weapons. Why? What is their sick paranoic deal? They probably are never going to shoot anybody, but if they did, would they not end up in prison for it? I'll take my chances with society. While they're portrayed as innocent victims, I think lots of times the victim was demonstrating condescension and disrespect to the crazy low-self esteemed shooter. I don't own any guns. But I greatly digress. You could be right. I've worn boots most of my life, when around me guys are wearing flip-flops, baggy shorts and tank tops. I'm no cowboy, I just fixated on the late 60s early 70s style typified by guys in bands like the Grateful Dead, Quicksilver Messenger Service, New Riders of the Purple sage, Poco, The Byrds, etc., etc.. So yeah, that is my aesthetic, only my big belt buckle is gonna have a Steal Your Face image on them, not a longhorn steer. We'll see. Rose wants me to go to Texas in September with her. I suppose I'd have to visit Austin.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21844102 - 06/22/15 11:38 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Dunno mate.  My thoughts go to Austin, TX for a compromise on community and climate.  However it pans out, I hope you find a happy home.




My step-daughter lives in Dallas and took Rose to Austin. She did like it, although it is a tiny oasis in a Republican nightmare, with gun laws that make Florida's 'Stand Your Ground' seem liberal. You can shoot and kill a burglar who is no threat to you if you see him burgling your neighbor's house! How fucked up is that? I have acquaintances in my state and elsewhere who either carry 1-3 loaded guns on their person every day (they're NOT in law enforcement), or own as many as 40 guns. They are constantly trying to get me and my wife to buy weapons. Why? What is their sick paranoic deal? They probably are never going to shoot anybody, but if they did, would they not end up in prison for it? I'll take my chances with society. While they're portrayed as innocent victims, I think lots of times the victim was demonstrating condescension and disrespect to the crazy low-self esteemed shooter. I don't own any guns. But I greatly digress. You could be right. I've worn boots most of my life, when around me guys are wearing flip-flops, baggy shorts and tank tops. I'm no cowboy, I just fixated on the late 60s early 70s style typified by guys in bands like the Grateful Dead, Quicksilver Messenger Service, New Riders of the Purple sage, Poco, The Byrds, etc., etc.. So yeah, that is my aesthetic, only my big belt buckle is gonna have a Steal Your Face image on them, not a longhorn steer. We'll see. Rose wants me to go to Texas in September with her. I suppose I'd have to visit Austin.




In college I had a psychology professor who taught psychology in the justice system, he did the testifying as to whether or not people were criminally insane, and he said to avoid Texas like the plague with many anecdotes.  That is just one place you don't want to be caught doing anything illegal or look out of place because you'll be framed for it.  It set an early impression in my mind - Fuck Texas! 

I still hear great things about Austin though, in fact it's almost constantly compared to Portland.  From your vantage point of Miami, I just don't see it being worse.  You might not want to stray too far from the city though :lol:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: Severance13]
    #21846356 - 06/23/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Severance13 said:
Most free libraries including this type of information are terribly outdated. I could use some more data on this subject for my current therapist to peruse...however, I'm too poor for paper :b



Terribly outdated? What's your basis for that judgement?


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OfflineSeverance13
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #21852960 - 06/24/15 10:45 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Most free online library sources only have sources from at the latest 1999 to 2001. In the scientific world, that's decently out of date. I have access to journals thanks to friends in the UC system, but most books available for free are out of date. My area's public library system is awful as well...d


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: Severance13]
    #21858115 - 06/26/15 12:16 AM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Severance13 said:
Most free online library sources only have sources from at the latest 1999 to 2001. In the scientific world, that's decently out of date. I have access to journals thanks to friends in the UC system, but most books available for free are out of date. My area's public library system is awful as well...d



Is there a sharp cut-off point where scientific publications go out of date (like the expiry date on a milk carton), or does it happen gradually?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: Rhizoid]
    #21859754 - 06/26/15 12:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

When new discoveries render old discoveries obsolete, the old publications immediately become artifacts. When Antoine Lavoisier proved scientifically that there was no such thing as Phlogiston which was believed to be the cause of combustion, an unsubstantiated belief was dismissed. When the Michelson-Morley interferometry experiment proved that there was no omnipresent Æther to carry light from point A to point B, that unsubstantiated theory went bye-bye. Thomas Kuhn wrote about 'paradigm shifts' that occur in science in his book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions which while being 50 years old is still relevant. But it's not just unsubstantiated hypotheses or theories that undergo revision. Look at the models of the atom and how they have evolved. The model was sufficient to produce an atom bomb in 1945 and then a hydrogen bomb in 1952, but today there are many more subatomic particles that have been identified.

Even though we now have named hypothetical particles called tachyons that are said to exceed the speed of light, for example, we have not proved their existence.  Tachyon beams appear regularly in Star Trek. Sometimes though, what first appears in imagination or as hypothetical, later takes mathematical form, and later still the math becomes manifest in matter. Jules Verne's atomic submarine is a good example of sci-fi becoming manifest reality. The first atomic sub was christened Nautilus after Verne's fictional story. Perhaps we'll have matter-antimatter engines, though it will transcend Einsteinian physics if a new paradigm allows for velocities equal to or faster than the speed of light. Then Einsteins 'Constant' of the speed of light will be relativised by the new paradigm, just as Newton's laws were relativized by Einstein's discoveries.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineSeverance13
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21860562 - 06/26/15 03:17 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Time-space folding engines much like futurama's ship's engine. That would be interesting to see


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: Severance13]
    #21860927 - 06/26/15 05:09 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

For animation fantasy and science fiction, I prefer 'Six' from 'Tripping the Rift.'



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: Anyone have any psychotherapy manuals post 1999 for psychedelics? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #21864232 - 06/27/15 12:49 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
When new discoveries render old discoveries obsolete, the old publications immediately become artifacts. When Antoine Lavoisier proved scientifically that there was no such thing as Phlogiston which was believed to be the cause of combustion, an unsubstantiated belief was dismissed. When the Michelson-Morley interferometry experiment proved that there was no omnipresent Æther to carry light from point A to point B, that unsubstantiated theory went bye-bye.



Absolutely. When new observations are available, old theories may be rendered obsolete. But this can take a thousand years or 5 minutes, depending on circumstances. There is no rule that science inevitably becomes obsolete after 15 years.

Quote:

Thomas Kuhn wrote about 'paradigm shifts' that occur in science in his book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions which while being 50 years old is still relevant. But it's not just unsubstantiated hypotheses or theories that undergo revision. Look at the models of the atom and how they have evolved. The model was sufficient to produce an atom bomb in 1945 and then a hydrogen bomb in 1952, but today there are many more subatomic particles that have been identified.



That many things are still relevant after 50 years is exactly my point. Science and understanding are not Microsoft Windows security updates that need to be absolutely fresh at any given moment. 15 years "out of date" science is usually nothing to worry about for a layman.


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