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If the world is actually a virtual simulation...
    #20842518 -

then someone or some entity must be the reason it is, and is behind its programming, so why would they let us start thinking that it is, with scientists researching the subject, coming up with theories, etc? Why would they program this into our virtual reality?


--------------------
For years on end I have been sitting here,
impatiently awaiting potency: some explosive revelatory surge
that will carry me away and permit no looking back.
But this moment of deliverance has not arrived,
and I have done nothing to hasten it.
Perhaps it doesn’t matter.
Perhaps I wasn’t meant to do anything.
In which case, I have succeeded admirably.


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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: Apollop]
    #20842852 -

Maybe they programmed in a randomness function, so that they were not the direct creators of what was to happen?  Maybe a substrate of order, guided by a principle of chaos?  So the Creator, while essentially pushing the "go" button, is not actually directly responsible for everything that happens?

How do you know this hasn't happened an infinite number of times already?


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #20843662 -

i dont.

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: Apollop]
    #20845124 -

Apollop said:
then someone or some entity must be the reason it is


That assumption is as debatable as any other.

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: koraks]
    #20845458 -

koraks said:
Apollop said:
then someone or some entity must be the reason it is


That assumption is as debatable as any other.


are you saying that it could be a simulation/virtual without a creator? how?

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: Apollop] * 1
    #20845687 -

Apollop said:
are you saying that it could be a simulation/virtual without a creator?


Sure.

Quote:
how?


If life can emerge the way it did, in its complex forms and interactions, without the involvement of any higher power, then why couldn't a complex simulation running on some equally complex system that just emerged or evolved?

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: koraks]
    #20845867 -

koraks said:
Apollop said:
are you saying that it could be a simulation/virtual without a creator?


Sure.

Quote:
how?


If life can emerge the way it did, in its complex forms and interactions, without the involvement of any higher power, then why couldn't a complex simulation running on some equally complex system that just emerged or evolved?


:lol:

I used to enjoy arguing with you, but after that last bit of info I just don't know man :shrug:


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: koraks]
    #20846434 -

koraks said:
Apollop said:
are you saying that it could be a simulation/virtual without a creator?


Sure.

Quote:
how?


If life can emerge the way it did, in its complex forms and interactions, without the involvement of any higher power, then why couldn't a complex simulation running on some equally complex system that just emerged or evolved?


if this is based on the belief that life emerged out of nothing and without a creator, then your argument is a valid one, and i can't argue with that too. if you believe that there was a cause that made life emerge, then there must a cause for that complex simulation runnin on that equally complex system...

i feel im going crazy man... ive always actually felt it and thought of it but now its kinda confirmed for me after discovering all that quantum physics research and the ones sayin it's all a simulation.... wtf....

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: Apollop]
    #20850118 -

Apollop said:
if this is based on the belief that life emerged out of nothing and without a creator, then your argument is a valid one


Well, that was just what I was saying. I certainly wasn't implying that I am a creationist - I'm not. But that doesn't matter; I was just pointing out what in my eyes was a flaw in your logic, i.e. the assumption that life as we know it being a simulation (run on whatever system) would necessarily be intentional and therefore have an identifiable creator. Btw, I don't think this is a simulation, although metaphorically, you could view our experience of life as a simulation that runs on the hardware of our brains, with firmware coded into the machine in the form of DNA. But that would be more of a metaphor than it would be a more direct way of describing reality as it probably is. The latter assuming your a logical positivist of course; it's all different if you adhere to post-modernist or constructivist ideas. I suppose anything goes then :lol:

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: koraks]
    #20851249 -

thanks for your reply, im not familiar with those terms though at the end (characterizations of life views) so i guess i have a different kind of reading to do now :smile:

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: Apollop]
    #20851260 -

yeah i would call myself a logical positivist i think

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: Apollop]
    #20851454 -

Apollop said:
are you saying that it could be a simulation/virtual without a creator? how?


Dreaming is evidence that a simulation can form through evolution without need for a creator.

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: StygianKnight]
    #20851533 -

StygianKnight said:
Apollop said:
are you saying that it could be a simulation/virtual without a creator? how?


Dreaming is evidence that a simulation can form through evolution without need for a creator.


you are the creator of your dreams

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: Apollop]
    #20853222 -

But you aren't actively programing the simulator, you're just experiencing it.
The simulator itself has evolved through natural (none guided) means.

A simulator may have a reason for existing without an actual conscious creator.
If the universe is a simulation the question is what's the reason for it?

In the case of your brain you simulate many things even when awake, often the point is to be a step ahead of your slow neurons so be able to react fast enough to not be eaten by something (or other calamity).  Many optical illusions show gaps in this simulation.  So the big philosophical questions are what is the next universe up getting from simulating this one and are we a what-if simulation or an attempt to exactly replicate its universe?

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: StygianKnight]
    #20859042 -

If the universe is a simulation, then is it not a comprehensive enough simulation that we can generally take it to be a real and physical representation of the reality we live in all the same? That is to say - as far as we are aware the simulation still allows for all the physics that we have come to expect from reality as a whole.

In reference to the OP, if it is indeed a simulation programmed by something, it's not that 'they' let us think about the nature of the universe that we live in, but that the programming of the simulation itself allows us to think about it. If we had computers powerful enough to simulate real thoughts in our own world, could we prevent those computers from simulating thoughts about their existence either?

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: PatrickKn]
    #20859367 -

PatrickKn said:
If we had computers powerful enough to simulate real thoughts in our own world, could we prevent those computers from simulating thoughts about their existence either?


Well said.
Like in 'her'.

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: Apollop]
    #20918779 -

Someone did create the universe and that someone... is us.  If you think about this deeply for a while, it'll start to "click" more and more.  It's very interesting. 

We are in our own self-created universe, experiencing different extensions of our self.  The laws of physics is universal through out the universe because our consciousness, that creates this reality, is also universal.  i.e. one soul that moves through everything.

Participating universe.  Compassion.

The universe is a simulation!  A good example I heard recently..

Light scatters from your light bulb in your room all over the place.  Those photons reflect off the wall and go into your eye.  The rods and cones in your eye receive these photons and transfers them into energetic messages.  Those energetic messages are sent to the brain and then the brain receives them.  The brain then comprehends these energetic messages and transfers them into whatever it is that allows you too "see" (sight). 

So lets take your brain out and keep it fully conscious.  Now lets hook up your eye's photon sender nerves (the nerves from your eyeball to your brain) to a computer.  Now lets tell the computer to create an image to send to your brain. 

You see where I'm going with this?  This world is a complete illusion made by our consciousness.  How can you actually verify that anything is real... but your own consciousness.  Scary as hell..


--------------------
Experience my nightmarish first time of smoking Ganja!


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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: tripp23]
    #20923809 -

and your own consciousness would be to an evolved computer (one we create in the future) the mental space in which it thinks it exists in when, in fact, it's just an evolved computer that can question its own existence

right?

what does that say? nothing, right? like what do you personally think this is?

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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: Apollop]
    #20935199 -

I would personally say that what you've stated sounds more of like what the brain would say.  The brain is the tool separate from your own consciousness.  The brain is your tool to survive.  Your consciousness just observes.  Try it.  Focus on something in front of you real hard.  You'll notice that you'll have no thoughts if you concentrate right. 

Therefore your own consciousness is just observing the brain saying "I am aware of myself". 

The only thing I can imagine consciousness to be is raw energy.  I mean.. Define it for yourself.  Define consciousness.  Some say that consciousness is the only thing faster than the speed of light so what does that say?  Consciousness = timeless = ageless.

I guess you could say it's like a computer?.. I mean, computers are apart of the universe as well.. but consciousness is a very different type of computing.  The most very core fundamental structure of the universe - consciousness.


--------------------
Experience my nightmarish first time of smoking Ganja!


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Re: If the world is actually a virtual simulation... [Re: tripp23]
    #20935459 -

tripp23 said:
Light scatters from your light bulb in your room all over the place.  Those photons reflect off the wall and go into your eye.  The rods and cones in your eye receive these photons and transfers them into energetic messages.  Those energetic messages are sent to the brain and then the brain receives them.  The brain then comprehends these energetic messages and transfers them into whatever it is that allows you too "see" (sight). 

So lets take your brain out and keep it fully conscious.  Now lets hook up your eye's photon sender nerves (the nerves from your eyeball to your brain) to a computer.  Now lets tell the computer to create an image to send to your brain. 

You see where I'm going with this?  This world is a complete illusion made by our consciousness.  How can you actually verify that anything is real... but your own consciousness.  Scary as hell..



I'm a little lost as to how you use that to support your perspective that the universe is a simulation.

I mean sure I suppose it is possible that the universe is a simulation, anything is possible really. But if it really were a simulation it would be impossible to detect the fact that our reality, is just a simulation.


--------------------

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