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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #19852929 -

KillerPicklez said:
No sport requires college, it requires you to be a number of years removed from high school.

and you cant discriminate by paying some athletes and not others



Of course you can.  They do it with scholarships.


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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19854821 -

elax420 said:
Assuming they have to pay every athlete; The size of the stipend should be dictated by how much revenue the program brings in. Then everybody gets paid if they are profitable, sounds like the real world.



Equal sharing based on profit sounds like the real world? What world are you living in

zappaisgod said:
KillerPicklez said:
No sport requires college, it requires you to be a number of years removed from high school.

and you cant discriminate by paying some athletes and not others



Of course you can.  They do it with scholarships.



That isnt the same. That's providing something for free based on performance... Not the same as paying everyone

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #19855099 -

You pay employees different amounts based on the income you generate from their efforts.  There is no reason whatsoever why that wouldn't carry over to college sports.


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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19855559 -

That's not what I was saying

I was saying that sports like swimming, track and field, cross country, hockey, ect wont get paid

So how is that fair?

You are going to say that only football and basketball players get paid because those are the only programs that generate money?

I just think it's a stupid idea in general to start paying people who are already receiving an education. I think the right way to do it would be to give free education, free room and board, and free medical. I think that is more than fair for people who play a game.

You are talking about over $100,000+ over the course of 4 years, so 25k a year which is plenty.

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #19855698 -

KillerPicklez said:
That's not what I was saying

I was saying that sports like swimming, track and field, cross country, hockey, ect wont get paid

So how is that fair?

You are going to say that only football and basketball players get paid because those are the only programs that generate money?

I just think it's a stupid idea in general to start paying people who are already receiving an education. I think the right way to do it would be to give free education, free room and board, and free medical. I think that is more than fair for people who play a game.

You are talking about over $100,000+ over the course of 4 years, so 25k a year which is plenty.



I thought you were saying they would have to be paid. 

Fair?  Fair is a question you ask in kindergarten.

The universities are making a fortune off of the football and basketball players and are monopolisticly colluding with the professional leagues to eliminate alternative sources of the players' development.  They lose money on swimmers, etc.  Further, what educational value do you think football and basketball players who bring in the fans are really getting by majoring in communications or some other bullshit degree?


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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19857377 -

A large majority of student athletes use their degrees.... A lot more use their college degrees than end up playing professional sports

And the days of athletes all getting bullshit degrees has long passed

So you are in favor of paying all college athletes? Is that your stance?

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #19857386 -

If you are going to start paying them, then I think it's only fair to make them pay for their education and their room and board :shrug:

As I said, when you give them 4 years of education and room and board that is basically giving a student 20-30k a year. A fair salary for someone in "development league"

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19857400 -

KillerPicklez said:
elax420 said:
Assuming they have to pay every athlete; The size of the stipend should be dictated by how much revenue the program brings in. Then everybody gets paid if they are profitable, sounds like the real world.



Equal sharing based on profit sounds like the real world? What world are you living in

zappaisgod said:
KillerPicklez said:
No sport requires college, it requires you to be a number of years removed from high school.

and you cant discriminate by paying some athletes and not others



Of course you can.  They do it with scholarships.



That isnt the same. That's providing something for free based on performance... Not the same as paying everyone




Fuck equal sharing. No if you are a valuable asset to your employer they are obviously going to pay you more than the jerk off they hired to clean up around the office.

Football and Basketball generate a ton of revenue. So they should make decent money. The sports that lose money shouldn’t pay its athletes. Simple as that.

zappaisgod said:
You pay employees different amounts based on the income you generate from their efforts.  There is no reason whatsoever why that wouldn't carry over to college sports.



This is what I’m saying.

Fair doesn’t matter, but i believe it should be legal because those athletes actually cost the school money where as the other athletes are making millions and even billions for their school and the NCAA. The main reason i believe the athletes should be paid is because the system in place is artificial and inherently inefficient. The main misconception about capitalism IMO, is that capitalists only care about maximizing capital, not true its all about maximizing economic utility.


Hate to say I’m in agreement with zappa. Im pretty sure there is no such thing as monopolistic collusion, even though that was a dope line and right on point. The fact that you can collude in the first place means you sell a similar product, thereby meaning the firm is in duopolistic competition. I had the coolest fucking professor ever for economics this semester and she completely made me rethink my stand on social sciences and “bullshit degrees”. Economics is really just the study of human behavior, being a Psychologist I’m sure you can appreciate that.

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #19857463 -

KillerPicklez said:
A large majority of student athletes use their degrees.... A lot more use their college degrees than end up playing professional sports

And the days of athletes all getting bullshit degrees has long passed





Ya fucking right. Of the 3 football players I’ve known, Two were majoring in african american studies, and the other communications. One sold a shitload a coke, and the other two just smoked weed and chased pussy. I doubt any of them could spell academics.


The whole system is fucked up. Athletes get special treatment so they can play, regardless of anything else. I mean i love college football but why not just have amateur teams instead of acting like these dudes are legitimate students.

Pay them what minor leaguers make, if they wanna go to school they can. It kinda fucking pisses me off that a lot my tuition goes to pay for athletics in the first place. Im here to get a degree not pay for the fucking womens water polo team to lose every game.


Since i pay like a grand a year on athletics pay the damn players because i am sure as hell not getting an ROI with the 10 football and basketball games i go to.
Tickets are cheap as hell.

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: elax420]
    #19857593 -

So you think the schools being forced to pay athletes will lower your tuition? If anything it will cause tuition to increase.

elax420 said:
It kinda fucking pisses me off that a lot my tuition goes to pay for athletics in the first place. Im here to get a degree not pay for the fucking womens water polo team to lose every game.




And just because the 3 athletes you know are dipshits, most likely because you are a dipshit and birds of a flock, ya know....

I know tons of student athletes from Ohio State and Arizona State and a couple from other major universities who got degrees in business, chemistry, education, ect and now how jobs in those fields... Not in the NBA or the NFL..

And my buddy who did get drafted my the Miami Dolphins is now using his degree from Michigan State because he only made it 1 season in the NFL.

Yes there are marque athletes who use college as purely a launching pad for their pro careers, but that number is a MINORITY of the whole of what represents the typical student athlete

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #19858030 -

KillerPicklez said:
So you think the schools being forced to pay athletes will lower your tuition? If anything it will cause tuition to increase.

elax420 said:
It kinda fucking pisses me off that a lot my tuition goes to pay for athletics in the first place. Im here to get a degree not pay for the fucking womens water polo team to lose every game.




And just because the 3 athletes you know are dipshits, most likely because you are a dipshit and birds of a flock, ya know....

I know tons of student athletes from Ohio State and Arizona State and a couple from other major universities who got degrees in business, chemistry, education, ect and now how jobs in those fields... Not in the NBA or the NFL..

And my buddy who did get drafted my the Miami Dolphins is now using his degree from Michigan State because he only made it 1 season in the NFL.

Yes there are marque athletes who use college as purely a launching pad for their pro careers, but that number is a MINORITY of the whole of what represents the typical student athlete



My point about tuition is the whole system is so fucking corrupt. Where is all this money going? no one ever says. We do know the guys who organize the bowl games, and work maybe one week of the year make 800k.

Aren’t you the kid who couldn’t even fucking graduate, and bounces in and out of jail? Bitch i got a 3.4 and clean record  :lol:
Ya there are quite a few football players in the Business school, they never go to class and still pass, I wonder why? You make up some bullshit personal experience angle because you can’t come up with a real argument and you are trying to detract from point at hand.


So fucking what if some athletes use their degrees after school, good for them, every other student on the damn campus plans on doing the same. You have no numbers backing your claims anyway. If you knew anything about recruiting you would know the entry standards are severely lowered for athletes, and they get shown the easiest path possible to graduate once accepted. Sure they can deviate but most of them wouldn’t even be there if they weren’t good at sports. I know for a fact Stanford, one of the worlds premiere universities, only requires a 4.0 GPA and fucking 20 on the ACT. Do you know the kind of shit regular people have to do to get into Stanford? 4.0 and 34 probably wouldn’t cut it.


Im all for education, but acting like d1 football players at programs like OSU are there primarily for education is a flat out lie and you know it. It is reckless and irresponsible for the institutions to profit off the sweat of its athletes under the guise of education. I don’t know how the NCAA managed to corner the market on Amateur Football, but its starting to seem like its only a matter of time before they get slapped with a major anti-trust lawsuit and their slave labor scheme dies.


If the institutions support their “student athletes” so much why don’t they sign a contract with the players guaranteeing them a 4yr full ride in return for services rendered?

If you can’t argue the economics or law behind this what is there to even talk about? Personal experience is bullshit.

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #19859017 -

KillerPicklez said:
A large majority of student athletes use their degrees.... A lot more use their college degrees than end up playing professional sports

And the days of athletes all getting bullshit degrees has long passed

So you are in favor of paying all college athletes? Is that your stance?



I am in favor of paying the ones who generate revenue


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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19859273 -

There are two recent antitrust suits filed against the NCAA. One is a class action. The other was filed by a big sports labor attorney on behalf of 4 players and names the 6 power conferences and the NCAA. This second one seems more interesting. It could open the door for individual players to negotiate for what they're worth.

      The class action, as well as the lets start a union approach seem more one size fits all, same pay for everyone.

    At any rate, this is just the beginning. If they say give a couple thousand to everyone that will be step one, but in 10 or 20 years it will go way beyond that. The money just got too big for the NCAA, coaches and presidents to keep it all.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Simulacrum
The truth which conceals that there is none

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: Brian Jones]
    #19860567 -

Right now they just need to do something to make it appear as if they are working towards a solution to keep the government from coming down on their asses hard. Plus it would be good for PR.

I know its not exactly applicable in this situation but in Torts its called a post remedial measure. 

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: elax420]
    #19860587 -

I'm not going to argue about student athletes with someone who went to Utah

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #19860718 -

:lolsy:
or so sayeth the drop out felon.
49th ranked law school
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/university-of-utah-quinney-03157
And a premiere research institution with nobel laureates on staff. Its not Harvard but it is a hell of a lot better than ASU

What is ASU known for again?
Oh ya one of the worst STD rates in the country
https://asunews.asu.edu/20110712_maricopacounty_arrestees

Did you even make it through freshman year? you can’t even make the most basic of arguments?

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: elax420]
    #19860727 -

You went to Law School?

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #19860778 -

Nah or else i would have fucking killed that fairness argument.  Ive taken a few lower division law classes, I have my first upper division next semester.
Im hoping to get into a better school. UCLA or Colorado ideally. Utah is not a bad safety school at all though. ASU has a solid Law School, they just don’t specialize in anything that interests me.

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: elax420]
    #19860939 -

ASU has one of the top business schools in the country and a top 5 sustainability school, which is what I was going for. And I was in my upper division years.

But I digress...

Back to arguing about whether or not over privileged athletes should get even more. They already get free food, free housing, free schooling, and free clothing, why not pay them and force everyone's tuition up.

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Re: Northwestern Players Can Become First College Sports Union [Re: elax420]
    #19861023 -

elax420 said:
Right now they just need to do something to make it appear as if they are working towards a solution to keep the government from coming down on their asses hard. Plus it would be good for PR.

I know its not exactly applicable in this situation but in Torts its called a post remedial measure. 




The NLRB is the government and 1 guy just shook the world.  I have very little expectation that this will stand.  I can't believe the players would want this.  If they consider an athletic scholarship to be employment then they need to be taxed on their income.  I cannot believe that this is ignored in the discussion.


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