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Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions * 7
    #18700433 -

So as you know, the user iwasaclown/thoughts publicly posted a PM of mine.

I've been under the impression this whole time that posting a PM was an instant permaban.

I'm not rallying for a permaban for this user (we were friends before he lost it), but 5 days turned into 11? Private messages are private for a reason.

Can someone please clarify? I'm not looking to start a war or get any more involved than I have, but if someone could please explain to me the ban durations on disclosing correspondence, what is considered disclosing correspondence, and why this user is not permanently banned for breaking one of the most sacred things on shroomery.org then I'd be really appreciative.

Thanks,

Dys

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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Adden] * 3
    #18700522 -

Administrative Rules and Guidelines

Quote:
On Posting Private Messages:

Private Messages are meant to be kept private. We will not tolerate users posting discussions held in private correpondance, onto the public boards. Any private messages that are sent to a moderator or admin may be reviewed by the collective staff, but will never be posted in the public forum.


If the administration can't even post PMs, why is it not a permaban if a user goes and does something that the administration would NEVER do.

Shroomery's Privacy Policy

Quote:
The Shroomery is very concerned with maintaining our users' privacy and we are constantly striving to create a secure and anonymous environment.


Please strive to create a secure and anonymous environment by permanently banning users who post private messages and disclose other forms of personal correspondence contained therein.

Quote:
Please feel free to contact us with any questions or concerns you may have.



Please refer to OP for questions.

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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Adden] * 1
    #18703080 -

Bans are usually issued at the discression of the individual Mod who chooses to handle the situation. Therefore ban durations can vary depending on a Mods personality, mood, time of the month, attention span... etc.

Permabans are rarely used, as most Mods like to give people another chance. Also, things that happen in real time during a thread, can be surprisingly difficult to perceive after the fact.

When a Mod is notified about a post, they do not always see the context and history that surrounds it. Mods are not omnipotent and do not always see everything that leads up to the notification. Context is frequently lost, so some posts and threads seem much less serious when reviewed.

I understand PMs are a touchy issue. There is some good news and bad news here. Mods can not look at any individual's PMs (asside from their own). This means they can not snoop (good) but it also means they can not really confirm that an actual PM has been shared (bad). People have cried wolf before, pretending PMs have been shared when they have not, also there have been falsified PMs that look like the real thing.

When you use the Mod notification system, all mods for that forum get a PM, but once a single Mod decides to officially handle the situation, the Notification vanishes from every body else's inbox. This limits our own ability to check and balance each other's actions, but it also keeps our personal inbox manageable. Imagine having hundreds of mostly bullshit (ie: already handled) PMs to weed through each day. Really. Most people who notify Mods, are notifying us about very minor issues. Also, the Mod who accepts the notification does not exactly know what they are accepting. Not until they accept it. Sometimes we are notified about a single post in a 97 page thread we have never participated in. We don't always have the time to look into each and every situation in a satisfactory way. Most notifications can be handled in a minute or less, but occasionally they can become hours long trips down the rabbit hole. It is honestly the luck of the draw. This is a sad truth.

How can you help? Well, be specific in your notification notes. This helps the Staff know what they may be getting into and helps us choose weather or not we have time to delve into a particular issue. Remember, once a single Mod chooses to handle a notification, the notification vanishes from everybody else's inbox. Also, and most people do not realize this, once a notification has been handled, you can notify us again for the same post (if it has not been handled to your satisfaction, or it was handled incorrectly) but be specific, especially when you are notifying us about an issue for a second time, if we double punish someone for a single post, that opens up a whole new can of worms that can make us Staffers look very bad in the eyes of the community. Community perception is vital. If the community as a whole does not trust their Staff, they will not help us, and the community does indeed help us do our job.

Most Staffers prefer to err on the side of innocence instead of guilt. We would rather under-punish than over-punish. We usually look for opportunities to teach lessons, rather than permaban. Permabans are supposed to be used as a last resort. Permabans can open a whole new can of worms, a can that includes vindictive puppetry and costly DDOS attacks. People tend to serve their short term bans and often, they learn from them. Permabans historically, can provoke retaliation.

I did not intend this reply to become so epic, but this is not an easy question to answer with a simple solution. I do hope you understand. We are well aware our system is imperfect and we are always looking for suggestions on how to improve.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Rose]
    #18703286 -

Suggestions? Ban users who post PMs or clarify site policy and administrative rules and guidelines.

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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Adden]
    #18703383 -

Was the user not banned?

I believe I have not only clarified our policy, but our folly.

I spent hours of my life, responding to your specific issue. What more should you expect from an unpaid individual? I know you support this site financially, but the staff works as volunteers. Your money pays for the site, not for our individual work. Do you or do you not get this very specific point?

If my answer does not meet up to your needs and satisfaction, then you may need someone other than me to reply. 

I provide honesty... freely. I do this in part, out of respect for who you are, and what you have done for this community. If my reply does not meet your needs, then bribe someone. We sure as Hell don't do this for a living.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Rose]
    #18703428 -

I'll talk to the mod.

Like I said I don't wanna start a war. I appreciate the time you took typing your reply. Just please update site policy and administrative rules and guidelines.

Five days is a decent ban I guess, but what if we traded and he posted my name / addy / number?

He came back with a puppet and got his ban extended so he obviously doesn't take this seriously at all.

IMO it should be a ban pending a perma with admin oversight to verify the PM and post.

And yes, I know what it's like being an unpaid volunteer and having issues like this come up. Now imagine a faulty chatroom in real-time without extensive mod/admin oversight. I know where you're coming from and tbh I'm glad you're a mod again.

Pour a cup of coffee, spark a bone, and realize I got the clarification I needed :wink:. Not looking for aggravation just clarification and updated rules/policy on the "one thing you never do" on shroomery.org. Thanks.

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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Adden]
    #18703439 -

Thanks.

Now, again, why the fuck would we permaban someone who already knows how to return as a puppet? If they want their original username back, they must serve their entire and extended ban.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Adden]
    #18703443 -

Can't you just disable PMs as well? Or ban a user from PMs for a certain period of time from using them? Like I said, we were cool before he lost his shit and became unglued. I think permas should be a last resort, but can you please provide clarification and/or a definition of "disclosing correspondence" for us? It's not in the rules. Tymo did a good job btw, he got right on it, so it's not bad blood or some silly shit. Ya dig?

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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Adden]
    #18703447 -

We can. Contact your favorite admin. Or simply ignore the user. That single act will instantly solve all of our collective problems.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Rose]
    #18703452 -

I'll file a support ticket since Andy has failed Megatron yet again. Thanks again and keep up the good work. :thumbup:

In the meantime if an admin can provide clarification on disclosing correspondence, please post it. I think tymo said he was going to bring it up.

Is it PM only? I think if something's said offsite or is posted by a user then it's free game, which I'm sure you guys agree with, another reason why his post about my brother's death wasn't part of my complaint, just the PM posting.

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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Adden]
    #18703469 -

You don't honestly want a public answer to that question. Do you?

You already know The Shroomery can only Moderate what happens within The Shroomery. No?

What y'all do outside The Shroomery is y'all's business.

Frankly, we'd prefer it if y'all'd keep it there. Outside The Shroomery.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Rose]
    #18703950 -

I was asking if disclosing correspondence is only applicable to PMs which I assume by your flippant answer it is. You know, since there's no definition or rule in administrative guidelines and site policies.

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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Adden]
    #18704641 -

The simple answer is that most things are done on a case by case basis.
The user you are referring to is already banned. So I don't know what you're on about. Bloodlust?
It does not say in the rules, that posting PMs is an instant permaban every time. Just that it's punishable up to that.


--------------------

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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Shroomism]
    #18705116 -

No. How many times do I need to say I'm not looking to start shit? Fuck. That self-admitted pedo can come back here and post to his heart's content. Why be mad at someone who's already so damaged that they find children sexually attractive? It'd be like tripping someone on crutches.

Good to know though that someone can post personal PMs and get away with it.

His ban for making a puppet was longer than posting my PM. As long as you guys have your priorities straight.

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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Adden]
    #18705316 -

I am thoroughly confused by this thread. I do not know what you want. I am more than happy to do anything in my power to handle the situation to your satisfaction.

Your questions have been asked and answered.

Bans vary in length and I have detailed the reasons why.

He was banned for posting a PM. His ban was extended for puppetry. Both situations were handled in much the same way they would have been handled if anyone else had done the same thing.

It seems you had a personal falling out with another user, and that is where the ignore user function is most useful.

If you are worried he will continue to share PMs, don't send him any more.

You don't want his ban extended any further, as you have said multiple times, and you have received the clarification you asked for. Yet, you seem to be encouraging us to permaban him.

In this case it really is not up to us to keep you two from socializing, it is up to you.

Give him a bad rating. Ignore him. Move on with your life. Your problem is solved.

If he continues to break rules, we will continue to ban him.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Rose]
    #18708315 -

This thread couldve ended with "we no longer permaban users for posting PMs and it is dealt with on a case-by-case basis".

That's it. No "bloodlust" as Shroomism put it, and you didn't have to spend "hours of your life" on this, Cervantes.

I think you guys are perceiving me as being more upset at this than I am. I didn't even request his quoted post of my PM to be edited. I don't care what a pedophile has to say - at all.

It is, quite simply, as easy as "a case-by-case basis". I didn't need a book written on how mods operate and I'm not bitching at how tymo handled this.

For real, guys, chill. I don't have my panties in a twist over this, I don't think you guys should either.

Plain and simple just wanted to know policy on posting PMs.

Sheesh.

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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Adden] * 1
    #18708850 -

Dystopia said:
This thread couldve ended with "we no longer permaban users for posting PMs and it is dealt with on a case-by-case basis".




But that isn't true, we do ban members for posting PMs, but it depends on the situation. 




Quote:
I think you guys are perceiving me as being more upset at this than I am. I didn't even request his quoted post of my PM to be edited. I don't care what a pedophile has to say - at all.



Given that the only alternative punishment you've suggested is a permanent ban, I think its fair for the others to have assumed that's what you wanted.

You should stop slinging insults here btw.  Stick to the topic.

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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: johnm214]
    #18708983 -

johnm214 said:
You should stop slinging insults here btw.  Stick to the topic.


Funny how getting baited leads someone to insults.

Bloodlust, LOL

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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Adden] * 1
    #18709081 -

Pushing for a permaban when someone is already banned is kinda bloodlust-ish to me :shrug:

But if that's all it was... glad we could clarify. Yes generally everything is handled on a case-by-case basis.
We always consider a user's history and prior ban points as well as the nature and severity of the offense in determining the actions.
There is no "one-size-fits-all" punishment for every possible scenario, as that is a very slippery slope.


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Re: Clarification on "Disclosing Correspondence" (posting PM's) and disciplinary actions [Re: Shroomism]
    #18709308 -

:thumbup:

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