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A throw of the I Ching
    #18600410 -

An intruiging experiment:
I asked the I Ching "should I take magic mushrooms?" (I have taken many psychedelics as well as mushrooms before, so the context in my mind was should I continue to...)
The hexagram generated was 61 Inner Truth, Chung Fu "Centering Conforming"
It has associations of bringing central concerns and life situation into accord, facing inner and outer changes, being in accord with the spirits, propitiousness, and PUTTING THE ACTION IN QUESTION TO THE TEST IS BENEFICIAL.
It was a static hexagram, with no moving lines.
Obviously, this is great advice!! :smile:

I used I Ching several times when I was younger, in a spirit of enquiry, and it was always "correct" - I went against it's advice despite myself and the situation screwed up badly and I conformed to it's advice even though I thought it would go badly wrong, and it worked out perfectly.
Part of me thinks this is really irrational and nuts, but part of me is really intruiged by this sort of thing, and I FEEL there IS something in it.....but what?
Any thoughts?


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You've got to open up your mind and let everything flood through.

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Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: Schopenhauer]
    #18600828 -

selection bias.  I can make anything work like that.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: Schopenhauer]
    #18602543 -

As I understand the theory, the I Ching works like this: there is a correct answer to any question you ask. If you cannot see it, it's because you have the wrong perspective. Consulting the I Ching is little more than taking one of the 64 perspectives and seeing if there's value in looking at your situation in this manner.

What I like about the I Ching is that the text appears to appreciate that only you can really see you own path, and so it doesn't lend itself to the "I can interpret the Will of God" charlatanism that plagues other things.

Philip K Dick wrote much of Man in the High Castle after consulting it.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: viktor]
    #18602584 -

I Ching is good fun. I've learnt a bit from reading it, after throwing coins hundreds of times (using a website) to try to read every possible outcome. There's some pearls of wisdom in it that I find relevant at times. Like I'll be in a situation, think about it, and a hexagram will come to mind and I'll view it from that perspective. I don't believe it can see the future or anything though.


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Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth, and taste...

:haha:

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Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: lolwut]
    #18602880 -

Yeah, ichingonline.net is a good site for that.

I believe you could, to a limited degree, see the future if you were familiar with the I Ching. You could also get a better look at the past.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: Icelander]
    #18604298 -

Icelander said:
selection bias.  I can make anything work like that.


Do you not think I am an intelligent person?
Then, pray tell me how ignoring advice and it not working out, irrelevant to my own hopes in the matter, ammounts to selection bias?


--------------------
You've got to open up your mind and let everything flood through.

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Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: Schopenhauer]
    #18604364 -

I have no idea if you are intelligent.  But if we play the odds then likely not nearly as intelligent as you think you are.

The ignoring advice and getting a bad result can be just chance imo.  I've played with the I ching, Tarot, and other things and the results have always been the same.  Selection bias. If they were really that accurate it would be easy enough to get very rich quick picking stocks. 

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Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: Icelander]
    #18604577 -

All things are just statistical runs. Everything. If you wish to look at it like that. As for accuracy, I don't think one would consult any oracle to select stocks....however I have from a very good source back in the 80s/90s that the trader given the exceptional trader award for performance in futures markets several years running actually used divination to make his decisions (which he obviously wanted to keep quiet!).
These things intrigue me, scientifically.
And as for playing the odds....my IQ tests have always put me more intelligent than I would personally have imagined, but then I've always been known for my self-deprecating attitude  :smile:


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You've got to open up your mind and let everything flood through.

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Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: Schopenhauer]
    #18604633 -

IQ test don't mean much imo.  Lots of really silly people out there with high IQs.

I have it from a good source:pope: that the Bible is the only real word of God.  How about them apples.

And how is asking the I Ching if you should buy a stock any different than asking it if you should take shrooms?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: Icelander]
    #18604695 -

Maybe it has some other purpose than divination and you're entirely missing its point.  Maybe that's its exoteric purpose that keeps it alive from generation to generation, because there aren't enough intelligent people to find a more interesting use for it (to actually learn something useful about the way you think).  Without divination, it would be long forgotten, that's for sure.... Same with tarot, and at the same time the tarot is a wealth of archetypes, incredibly useful IMO.


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

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Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18604889 -

The point was what was presented in the OP.  You don't have to convince me that it's worthless for divination.

And I agree. It's a good psychological mirror as whatever comes up will have value as a tool for insight into your mental landscape.  That's the only way I use it now.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: Icelander]
    #18604963 -

Yah, was a sloppy quick reply while waiting in line at the store (meant to be directed to OP).  But that's my point, that he can be using it incredibly irrationally for divination like a part of him suspects and there might be something more to the I Ching at the same time as he intuitively suspects.  The two don't necessarily contradict each other.  It's a good thing that a "part of him" suspects he has it all wrong. :lol:

Edit:
Example of how to do this:  remove the "should I take" (which is a very dualistic yes or no thing) component to this equation and recognize that there is some important element of readiness to having a good a mushroom trip.  Then use the I Ching to reflect on that.  Thus you won't have the conflict of your rational mind knowing that the I Ching won't give you a direct answer of whether or not you're ready, but may (or may not) give some insight into to what that readiness means (in which some ways you might be ready and some ways you might not be).


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

Edited by CosmicJoke (07/24/13 04:35 PM)

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Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: Icelander]
    #18605701 -

Icelander said:
And how is asking the I Ching if you should buy a stock any different than asking it if you should take shrooms?


I was thinking about this, and how some book could act as a form of self-hypnosis.  If he interprets the book as saying the Uverse has his back and it's the right decision to take mushrooms, then that may act as some form of assurance for him to relax and have a good trip.  So a false conception could bring about a good experience via self-fulfilling prophecy.  Not the way I want to live my life, but :ohwell:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18605728 -

That's confirmation bias. He said  " Obviously, this is great advice!" that's just what he wanted to hear imo.

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Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: Icelander]
    #18605814 -

:popcorn:


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^v^

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Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: Icelander]
    #18605820 -

Well, that's a good point, but he also said 
Quote:
I used I Ching several times when I was younger, in a spirit of enquiry, and it was always "correct" - I went against it's advice despite myself and the situation screwed up badly and I conformed to it's advice even though I thought it would go badly wrong, and it worked out perfectly.


So it seems like a bit of both phenomenon are in effect.  He does occasionally find information contrary to what he was hoping for and when he goes against it things go badly.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18605860 -

OK you win it's a fantastic oracle.  I'll stick to my own logic and powers of discrimination however.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: Icelander]
    #18605874 -

Icelander said:
OK you win it's a fantastic oracle.  I'll stick to my own logic and powers of discrimination however.


I didn't claim it was a fantastic oracle, just that it can fuck with somebody's mindset who is suggestible.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #18605888 -

No I did.  I just haven't had my nappy this afternoon and it's hot and I'm MOTHER FUCKING CRANKY!  :mad2:

Time for a gin and tonic. :nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: A throw of the I Ching [Re: Icelander]
    #18605935 -

Now there's some wisdom. Going for a walk to get some Bombay Sapphire.  Not gonna consult the I Ching.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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