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Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Prostitution [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1799657 -

DoctorJ said:
I would say you are taking advantage of a woman that would rather fuck for a living than get a real job...


Huh? How is fucking for a living not a 'real job?' If a person is peaceably engaged in consensual activity and others are willing to pay for their services, what is wrong with that? How is it taking advantage of a person who willingly engages in a activity and gets paid for it? Aren't the prostitutes taking advantage of the Johns by your same line of reasoning? After all, the Johns are 'victims' of their sexuality and testosterone levels...

Quote:
Pimps can try to entrap and exploit women, but it really takes two to play that game.


Unfortunately, it actually takes three to make the rules of that game. The third party being governmental agencies that outlaw and punish peaceful activities. Governments make the jobs of pimps more readily available and more prosperous to the detriment of the prostitutes. Because their profession is outlawed, prostitutes are compelled to rely on pimps for some sort of protection and as brokers to obtain clients. Because their peacful activities are outlawed, prostitutes can be victimized by their pimps while being fearful of reporting the crimes.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: Prostitution [Re: Swami]
    #1799683 -

I think its a question of whether you are betraying yourself or not. I had fucked up dreams about kids and a porn shop and prostitution. Maybe if any of you saw that, you may feel differently about it all. Maybe not. But that shit rattles my bones.


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What?

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Re: Prostitution [Re: Autonomous]
    #1799693 -

so you think if prostitution were legal that corporatized prostitution would be more humane than the underworld pimp system?

I know a few prostitutes (no I'm not a customer) and most of them were with pimps when they started out, but the smarter ones go independant and face little flak if they are smart about it.

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Re: Prostitution [Re: Zero7a1]
    #1799698 -

But most kids aren't at the point where they can rationally decide to engage in this activity. Plus many kids are less knowledgeable about how the world works, and they are more likely to be taken advantage of. If it is a free will decision of an adult, however, I don't see a problem with it.


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There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors - Morrison

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Re: Prostitution [Re: DoctorJ]
    #1799779 -

DoctorJ said:
so you think if prostitution were legal that corporatized prostitution would be more humane than the underworld pimp system?


They would have legal recourse if they were victimized, currently their options are much more limited. One can easily compare the lives and well being of prostitutes in Nevada counties where their jobs are legal vs. numerous other locations throughout the U.S. where they are forced to operate in the black market. One can also compare the lives of prostitutes in The Netherlands to other locations where legal prohibitions force them into the economic and legal underground. Besides the obvious ramifications dealing with the criminal injustice system, there is ample evidence that they would be better off health wise and the 'public health' issue of sexually transmitted diseases would be more effectively addressed. The short answer to your question is YES.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: Prostitution [Re: neutralizer]
    #1799788 -

well my dream was nothing concrete persay. But for my contention for the adults was that maybe the question of morality lays on the person themselves, and whether they are breaking their own rules. We all live here on this planet and we do what we want with our own reality, our behaviors and our perceptions. Whether we take drugs, sleep around, eat too much food. These are the things we choose to do. And what i was saying is whether or not it is a betrayel of ones ownself. I think only than can you justify something as being morally wrong.

And im not going to try and mix morals with what i think is a natural code for human interaction. I personally believe, think, feel, that humans have a natural code.... That we are all born here free in our own right to do as we wish as it is not to harm others, and to ensure that others may have just as much freedom as you do to decide what to do. But things like killing and eating your own kind, raping, and stealing from those who are innocent or those who are trying to express their own wish and fufillment of life.

"Sit down children, its time for a story" (not calling anyone children :wink: )

But on to my dream... My dream i could not place here. There is no decribable explanation for that. I could teell you some facts.... watch requiem for a dream of the last seen of the movie where the girl is fucking all those guys for crack money. Now multiply those depressing vibrations by 10, spice it with some black dark magic, and make these not women persay, but children, children who are older than normal children but still children. They are witches, but they are girls who have been destroyed by the affects of a twisted world. Rape, murder, a complete rape of a womans soul. Distorted so that she is twisted to where she still is the essence of her fall, away from dignity, away from grace. Now their are 5 girls in this room of this porno store, that had been decorated like a home to give the niceties of good living. But these girls are naked... and i just sit watching them. And this guy and this woman come in and they are going to rape the girl, but as i said she is a witch. and she crumbles the man... and all this time my head is seeing frame after fucked up frame... skipping and repeating flashing back and forth in my head... like hypnogic thoughts going at the speed you might find in Requiem For a Dream. and i see these girls... and her hair FLYS out all wicked like, and she starts to wind this woman who comes in with these cloths and chokes her. and she drowns in this sea of clothes.... dream fades... and so on.

The End
---------------

so i dont know.... when i think about prostitution things like that... thats just what I FEEL. and i think feelings can only be argued so much as if you have a conscience or not. So if these people dont have a conscience than i guess they dont have to worry about it being morally wrong.
But then again... I guess it depends on the severity of the situation. And im not going to try to make any kind of POINT because that would be... pointless. There are way too many different subjective views on this point. and if you tie that in with the what i said at first... I personally cant say anything. lol.


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What?

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Re: Prostitution [Re: 2Experimental]
    #1799952 -

Give your opinion on it first, then lets work from there : )

Gee, normally I am accused of throwing my weight around, while here I am just listening. Guess I will have to reread the posting charter so that I know what my obligations are as a thread-starter.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Prostitution [Re: Swami]
    #1800193 -

hehehe

I've always thought that prostitution was one of those victimless crimes. Prostitution in itself is not immoral in my book... it is, however, quite fucked up when a family man loads up on red-light-special-STDs and brings 'em home to the wife and such.

Use and abuse.


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...

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Re: Prostitution [Re: Swami]
    #1800381 -

Quote:
Moral or immoral?


I can't see any reason why prostitution in itself should be considered immoral. But it is a dangerous market activity since the business involves exchange of bodily fluids between strangers, and the possibility of unwanted pregnancies. Any such market activitiy should have rules and regulations, and perhaps license requirements for the business operators.

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Re: Prostitution [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1800812 -

Why? Shouldn't people be able to make decisions about themselves? Or do you mean it should be regulated as all business should be regulated, just enough that the business isn't run by a crooked pimp or something? What's wrong with exchanging body fluids?

I don't see why people should not be able to have sex for money. If we were to stop trying to legislate people's personal lives, maybe we could put enough money into a cure/vaccine for AIDS and stuff, then that'd take care of that problem.

As far as unwanted pregnancies, maybe if we would stop teaching abstinance as the "only way" to kids in schools, then we would have a more educated population that would know how and why to use contraception/protection to avoid unwanted pregnancies and STIs.


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There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors - Morrison

Edited by neutralizer (08/11/03 05:50 AM)

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Re: Prostitution [Re: neutralizer]
    #1800907 -

Quote:
Shouldn't people be able to make decisions about themselves? Or do you mean it should be regulated as all business should be regulated, just enough that the business isn't run by a crooked pimp or something? What's wrong with exchanging body fluids?


I mean as all business should be regulated, and in particular businesses that involve potential health risks. The law shouldn't regulate what adults do in private and consensually, but a business is different since it operates in a public market, and is required to follow certain rules for public conduct.

Just as we don't want businesses to sell cars without an exhaust catalyzer, I don't want to see businesses selling sex if they aren't required to follow certain rules. Many prostitutes know that contraceptive devices are important, but unfortunately they have no document that says "Licensed Hooker" to prove that they have understood all aspects of this.

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Re: Prostitution *DELETED* [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1800950 -

Post deleted by Steevil

Reason for deletion: I had embarrassing opinions in the noughties


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Re: Prostitution [Re: Steevil]
    #1800966 -

Steevil said:
If a woman wants to become a prostitute and does want to sell their body, then I would argue that they are, for want of a more psychological word, a little fucked up...


I'll thank you not to talk about my family members in such a manner!


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: Prostitution [Re: Steevil]
    #1801067 -

Quote:
There's nothing inherently bad about driving at 100mph. When everyone does it and a lot of people get run over you see why it's not a good idea to do so.


Yes. Driving at 100mph is immoral when it's illegal, when and if such a legal rule makes sense. Driving at 100mph is never inherently immoral.

But the original question was moral or immoral, not should it be legal or illegal. I said it's not inherently immoral (just like high-speed driving), but there are lots of arguments why it should be legally regulated.

Personally I think everyone who wants to work with phone marketing must be a little fucked up, so I never buy anything they sell, because I don't want to risk encouraging this particular kind of psychopathology. I don't know if my attitude actually helps them though, but it makes me feel a little better...

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Re: Prostitution [Re: Rhizoid]
    #1802217 -

Moral


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http://www.di.fm/ http://www.bassdrive.com http://www.xtcradio.com http://www.philosomatika.net

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Re: Prostitution [Re: Steevil]
    #1802258 -

Steevil said:
Merely saying "paying for sex isn't immoral" or "they're just selling a commodity" is a big simplification, and not very useful. If you're going to ignore all causes and effects of the act, then suddenly there's nothing wrong with a lot of things.


Unfortuantely, 99% of the people in this world don't think about issues and ideas in complex terms. It sucks, doesn't it? Believe me, I try getting them to. Can't make that fucking horse drink, can you?

Most of the knowledge about this world can easily be granted, just by taking some time to think about things, basically by LOOKING. Nothing is so simple, that's why labels, genres, and the such really suck. People take what was meant to generalize to GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF A CLUE to what something is, and then they decide it is easy enough to just use the generalization as the definition.

Think, people, think. Please.
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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