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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,425
Loc: clarity
Last seen: 28 minutes, 59 seconds
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: 4896744]
#15536865 - 12/18/11 07:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
iThink said: You probably would consider me an asshole if you knew me better. I'm admitedly selfish and don't pretend to be otherwise. In a forum such as this i say what i think and you will probably be offended by me in the future.
i think underneath the talk of selfishness and hedonism and such, you're probably a sweetheart
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: deff]
#15536995 - 12/18/11 08:26 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm pretty mild mannered in person. If you were to randomly meet me you would probably describe me as quite kind. I only let my controversial thoughts out when I'm around people who i know won't judge me, as i don't like emotional confrontation.
The exception is in anonymous text based discussion such as this.
-------------------- Live your Life!
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: xFrockx]
#15538417 - 12/19/11 06:13 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
xFrockx said: We seem to think nothing of the rights of the unconceived.
How can it be moral to have children, if we cannot ask the child if it consents to be born?
Original Sin?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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zebdawg
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/11
Posts: 13
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Yo, making babies is a part of life. As a race that has levels of economic capability it should be up to us as conscious minded people to know whether or not we are ready to be personally responsible for bringing a new life into this world and taking care of the baby thats a result of it. And as of now we have no proven way of conversing with the unborn to know if they want physical life or not.
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Kickle
Wanderer
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: zebdawg]
#15547338 - 12/20/11 07:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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every baby comes out crying except the ones that are turning blue and dying doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: Kickle]
#15547365 - 12/20/11 07:59 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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zebdawg
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/11
Posts: 13
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: Kickle]
#15548154 - 12/20/11 10:44 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Then be my guest and reverse your status as physically here and transend of your own accord because you were immorally brought forth into this world that you dont like. I mean once you are born you are given inate instincts to survive. If you put a newborn under water it will hold its breath, and if the spirit didnt want to be physical why would it preserve its life?
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Kickle
Wanderer
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Posts: 17,953
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: Icelander]
#15548181 - 12/20/11 10:52 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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What spirit? You're in a debate forum here, have any evidence of said spirit? I can provide evidence of crying babies
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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zebdawg
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/11
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Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: Kickle]
#15548204 - 12/20/11 10:59 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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The basis of this forum is that it is immoral to have babies because the unborn baby does nt have a say as to whether or not mommy gets pregnant, does nt that mean that there must be some kind of sentient existence before life if there is to be any opinion of being born?
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zebdawg
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/11
Posts: 13
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: zebdawg]
#15548207 - 12/20/11 11:00 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thread not forum
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Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,953
Last seen: 2 days, 15 hours
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: zebdawg]
#15548234 - 12/20/11 11:07 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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No. There is nothing to go on for consent and that is why one cannot assume that a child gives it. To assume that consent is automatically given is immoral especially when you consider the fact that the first thing that happens when we do give birth to life is that it cries out in agony.
If I were unable to speak, is it moral to assume that anything I do not say "no" to I am consenting to? How about when it brings obvious suffering?
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zebdawg
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/11
Posts: 13
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: Kickle]
#15548261 - 12/20/11 11:15 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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If there is no consent then why is it a matter of morality at all? a baby doesn't cry at birth just be cause its born, a doctor or nurse smacks its ass to make sure its breathing, anything is going to react negatively to pain unless its a sadist.
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Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,953
Last seen: 2 days, 15 hours
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: zebdawg]
#15548278 - 12/20/11 11:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Right, life is painful. Why should we be able to decide another needs to feel that pain when they cannot consent? It certainly seems the world is full of sadists congratulating this process
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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zebdawg
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/11
Posts: 13
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: Kickle]
#15548311 - 12/20/11 11:31 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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You are obviously a pessimist, and im assuming an atheist as well. You might as well take a vow of celibacy and isolate your self from society if you dislike the cruel and unfare world so much. because you are only willing to see the negative, surely nothing good can come from this life. If you had a bad child hood, then im sorry your parents should have waited for a better time or managed the birth control better.
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Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,953
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: zebdawg]
#15548324 - 12/20/11 11:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's a lot of wrong assumptions on your part. The only thing being discussed here is the topic and you have been unable to show why it is moral at all.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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4896744
Small Town Girl
Registered: 03/06/10
Posts: 5,128
Loc: United States
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: zebdawg]
#15548331 - 12/20/11 11:34 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Your ability to spout unsubstantiated fallacies is awesome!
-------------------- Live your Life!
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zebdawg
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/11
Posts: 13
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: 4896744]
#15548363 - 12/20/11 11:45 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: That's a lot of wrong assumptions on your part. The only thing being discussed here is the topic and you have been unable to show why it is moral at all.
do you think your conception was an immoral act that birthed you into a world of negatives that outweigh the positives?
Quote:
iThink said: Your ability to spout unsubstantiated fallacies is awesome!
im glad you noticed
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Kickle
Wanderer
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: zebdawg]
#15548367 - 12/20/11 11:47 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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Immoral, nope. But I do think it was an ignorant act.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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zebdawg
Stranger
Registered: 10/20/11
Posts: 13
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: Kickle]
#15548391 - 12/20/11 11:55 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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There you go, this is an argument of opinion. imo, it is immoral to have a child when you are unprepared to provide for it, and if you can provide then it isnt immoral.
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Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,953
Last seen: 2 days, 15 hours
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Re: Having a child without their consent is immoral. [Re: zebdawg]
#15548400 - 12/20/11 11:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago) |
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my parents were well prepared to have a child. they waited until their 30's with a stable home and plenty of resources. I still consider it an ignorant act. And not because suffering > happiness or happiness > suffering. But rather because I know they did not view the reality of their actions.
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