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gone ![]() Registered: 01/14/03 Posts: 1,270 Loc: outta here |
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Did anyone else catch this? I thought that it was actually a pretty damn good speech. I'll admit to knowing next to nothing about Gore, but compare this speech to the moronic doublespeak that Bush uses.
-------------------- The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience. And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him. "Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.
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member Registered: 08/09/03 Posts: 142 Last seen: 22 years, 10 months |
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While the speech pointed out problems we have in this country it offered NO solutions on how to fix these problems.
As far as the economy goes, president Bush inherited an economy that was inevitebly going into recession after 8 years of Clinton-Gore. (The Nasdaq was around 2000 when Bush came into office, down from around 5000). Economies go in cycles. We experienced large growth in our economy in the early 90s. It has to go down eventually. Gore's speech offered NO suggestions as to how we could have prevented our economy from going down, or how we can fix it. All he did was bash Bush on the economy. Also it is common knowledge that a Republican president is better for our economy that a Democratic president. (The stock market surges up when a Republican gets elected, visa versa when a Democrat gets elected). As far as the Iraq War and State of the Union address, Tony Blair, Britain's prime misister still stands by his intelligence. When Clinton bombed Iraq during his presidency he stated that Iraq had Chemical, Nuclear, and Biological weapons but yet he stated no evidence for this. Why the double standard then against the Republican party? Gore spoke about how things aren't going EXACTLY as president Bush said. This was a war and things do not go according to plan in wars. Members of the Democratic party predicted this war would be another Vietnam. About 50,000 Americans died in Vietnam and millions of Vietnemese. So far we have lost close to 200 troops. (Not sure on the number of dead Iraqi troops). The fact is that there are now 50 million people in Iraq liberated because of president Bush. This is supposed to be a bad thing? Al Gore has been out of the spotlight for so long he is desperate for attention. He requested to speak for this occassion. He was NOT invited to speak.
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unintended sideeffect Registered: 05/28/03 Posts: 842 Loc: OR Last seen: 5 years, 4 days |
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Also it is common knowledge that a Republican president is better for our economy that a Democratic president. (The stock market surges up when a Republican gets elected, visa versa when a Democrat gets elected).
Common knowledge, eh? This might be the silliest thing I've seen on here in weeks. -------------------- There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. -- Howard Zinn
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member Registered: 08/09/03 Posts: 142 Last seen: 22 years, 10 months |
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How is that argument silly? The argument I made was that the stock market knows a Republican president will more likely bring higher earnings to companies within the next 4 years, hence a surge in all the major markets. The stock market is a purely profit driven entity with no politcal bias.
While the economy and the stock market are not necessarily the same thing they correlate to each other greatly. Republicans have long been known as being strong on national defense and the economy. While Democrats have been known as being strong on helping the poor and the environment. Do you argue with this?
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old hand Registered: 09/11/01 Posts: 1,351 Loc: BC Canada |
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I guess it depends whose economy your speaking of. Of course, owners prefer the higher profits a republican government brings, while workers (the vast majority), would prefer higher wages, which cut into profits. -------------------- -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES
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member Registered: 08/09/03 Posts: 142 Last seen: 22 years, 10 months |
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A rise in the stock market helps everybody in this country not just share holders and CEOs. For example, if a company has higher earnings they will be able to expand, hire more employees, and gives raises.
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old hand Registered: 09/11/01 Posts: 1,351 Loc: BC Canada |
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Well, a rise in the stock market benefits everyone cuz more money is 'out ther doing something' But, I think regulation and unionization benifits average people (the vast majority) better than a stock market rise. Republicans don't regulate living wages, Democrats are more likely to. Take the phenonomen of Walmart. They are the biggest corporation in the world, absolutley swimming in profit, and they pay shit. John Walton is the second richest man in America. Why doesn't he pay living wages? Does he just need a few more jet airplanes? That are the norm, not the exception when it comes to highly successful multinational business. Only regulation and unionization helps the average worker(the vast majority) No? So, if I was American, I'd support Dems over Republicans. -------------------- -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES Edited by carbonhoots (08/11/03 12:17 AM)
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member Registered: 08/09/03 Posts: 142 Last seen: 22 years, 10 months |
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When you speak of regulation I'm assuming your speaking of regulating wages/prices? If you mean prices, look at what regulation did to the drug (prescription, not illicit) industry in Canada. When the government began to regulate drug prices companies starting failing. Why? Because it costs hundreds millions of dollars to make and successfully market a major prescription drug. When prices are regulated companies no longer have an incentive to make the drugs if they will not make the profits. Regulation of markets clearly does not work.
If your speaking of regulating wages then your suggesting that a socialist or communist economic system would be better for our economy. The socialist/communist economic system has failed throughout history, while a free market economy has been shown to work. (i.e. The US economy is the strongest in the world, while the Chinese economy is no where near the US's economy however they have roughly 4X as many people as we do... there are many more examples throughout history) I'm not really sure about how unionization affects an economy. Could you explain how unionization helps an economy? I thought that a union's purpose was to protect workers rights? Going off topic somewhat... of course WalMart will not pay a lot, it is a low skill job that any semi-compentent uneducated person can aquire. Are you suggesting that we increase wages for low skill skill jobs because the owner of the company (a highly skilled worker) makes more money than them?
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gone ![]() Registered: 01/14/03 Posts: 1,270 Loc: outta here |
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I think he offered a solution to the problems that many people would agree with, he said you should sack the President and get a new one.
-------------------- The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience. And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him. "Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.
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omgws!!!1! Registered: 10/22/00 Posts: 3,710 |
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That was a good speech. Almost makes me feel bad about voting for Nader. Though reading that speech I would think Gore has changed significantly since he was running for president so it was a different decision then.
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omgws!!!1! Registered: 10/22/00 Posts: 3,710 |
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He offered plenty of solutions. He indicated we should reconsider dropping from the Kyoto Treaty and the various Anti-Nuclear Proliferation agreements. He recommended not attempting to hinder public debate. He recommended not focusing tax breaks on the wealthy. These weren't direct recommendations. But the whole point of his speech was apparently lost on you- the purpose of the speech was to recommend we take seriously the task of selecting a new president. I don't know how you overlooked the main gist of the speech.
Oh God I am sick of this bullshit argument. "Gee the economy was great with 8 years of Clinton because of what the Republicans did before. Now the Republicans can't fix the collapse because Clinton was so bad". What specifically are you able to hold either leader accountable for? I would accept that you can't use the day's stock market to judge the current president, but you certainly can't brush off an economic decline that perists throughout Bush's presidency. He's pushed tax breaks that put us futher in debt with no gain to show for it. How is 'common knowledge' so sure a republican president is better for the economy again?
Okay, the does stock market embed a sort of a knowledge. Its actually the collected knowledge of all financial investors, where each investor's thoughts weighted by the size of their investments. It is not 'Common Knowledge' as the likes of Aristotle considered worthy of use in formal arguments. To me it does not represent any sort of knowledge that I should believe outright.
Its to early to call the war a success and way too early to call the Iraqi people free. They are an [italic]occupied country[/italic] and gee perhaps Common Knowledge might understand that is not free at this point. A good number of people are better off, but how long can we afford to keep maintaining the country? Have we ensured the Iraqis will really be better off? Remember, Saddam's political party came to power through US intervention.
I guess you have to seek out attention, if the oil industry doesn't buy it for you.
Okay, the stock market does embed a sort of a knowledge. Its actually the collected knowledge of all financial investors, with each investor's thoughts weighted by the size of their investments. It is not 'Common Knowledge' as the likes of Aristotle considered worthy of use in formal arguments. To me it does not represent any sort of knowledge that I should believe outright.
Republicans may generally be one way, but Bush is an idiot. Would you argue with that?
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A liberal guy(on Registered: 01/13/03 Posts: 845 Loc: Austin, TX Last seen: 22 years, 10 months |
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REALLY??? Where's the surge for Bush Jr? "Liberated" would be a good thing. "Conquered" is the more appropriate term. And I TOTALLY agree with djfrog when he said "Oh God I am sick of this bullshit argument. 'Gee the economy was great with 8 years of Clinton because of what the Republicans did before. Now the Republicans can't fix the collapse because Clinton was so bad'." --------------------
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Two inch dick..but it spins!? ![]() Registered: 11/29/01 Posts: 34,248 Loc: Lost In Space |
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Actually, anyone with a 401k can tell you the losses have stopped and the value is increasing.
Conquered? ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Stop Bush's war Registered: 01/30/03 Posts: 1,457 Loc: Comfy chair in m Last seen: 1 year, 3 months |
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They were pretty well conquered before the recent attack. Many say America has been at war with Iraq since the gulf war as the US embargo has prevented basic medical supplies, food and clothing, etc from reaching Iraq. Thousands and thousands of children have been starving over there every year and people have been selling their furniture, toys and books in order to survive, even Doctors. Now they have been bombed some more (bombing started sometime before the official date the war began) and still they don't have basics like clean water and electricity and they are not allowed to democratically elect thier own government since America saw an anti-American govt was the popular choice. Hm, well if conquered is not the correct choice of words (what does that mean to you? nonexistent?), 'liberated' certainly isn't. They're thoroughly oppressed.
-------------------- Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music. "Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium "My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.
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member Registered: 08/09/03 Posts: 142 Last seen: 22 years, 10 months |
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Impeaching the president ... that is not a solution to our economy, war in Iraq, or any other issues in America. Bashing the president is not a solution.
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member Registered: 08/09/03 Posts: 142 Last seen: 22 years, 10 months |
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- Ok I will concede on the no solutions thing. He offered very few solutions. The majority of the speak spoke of things gone poorly in the Bush Administration.
- Tell me one thing that the Clinton-Gore administration did to better the economy. Raise taxes? You don't believe Bush inherited the poor economy? Then tell me what Bush did that made the economy go in the shitter immediately after taking office. It is common knowledge because Republicans are traditionally stronger on the economy that Democrats are. - You believe that the stock market and the economy are not related? - Good point that Iraq War is not over. Are they not freed from an evil dictator though? They have basic freedoms now such as freedom of speech, whereas before they could have been jailed for that. - I'm not sure what you mean by, "I guess you have to seek out attention, if the oil industry doesn't buy it for you." That doesn't make any sense. The oil industry buys people attention? First of all why is Al Gore making this speech other than for attention? It is highly doubtful he's running for president. Also it is not necessarily a bad thing if he did it for attention. A lot of people do things for attention. - "but Bush is an idiot. Would you argue with that?" Because you don't agree with someones policies that makes them a idiot? You gave no evidence for your claim. I didn't know how to do the quotes thing so I responded to everything you said in order.
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member Registered: 08/09/03 Posts: 142 Last seen: 22 years, 10 months |
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-Okay... the Republicans are stronger on national defense. Does the mean that North Korea can't use a nuclear bomb against us? I didn't say a Republican president garuntees a surge in the economy.
-We did not conquer the Iraqi people. We conquered Sadam Hussien's regime thus liberating 50 million people.
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member Registered: 08/09/03 Posts: 142 Last seen: 22 years, 10 months |
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- Are you blaming America for the poor conditions over there? It sounds like you are saying its the American's fault that Iraqis did not have medical supplies, food and clothing.
- America has not been bombing civilian structures (however Clinton bombed an Asprin Factory accidently). We have been bombing the Iraqi military and their structures, not their people. - Obviously America isn't going to install an anti-American government. That could be even worse than having Sadam in power. So America doesn't support radical groups, what is your point? - We conquered Sadam's regime, liberating 50 million people. Did we not free 50 million people from an evil dictatorship? They are no longer oppressed. How do you argue that they are still oppressed? Is the USA oppressing them?
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multiplayer Registered: 07/19/02 Posts: 2,185 Loc: Canada Last seen: 6 years, 6 months |
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American/UN embargos and sanctions banned a variety of medical supplies from entering Iraq. info
Wrong, and here are some photos to prove it.
Its about 25 million, and as long as the USA is occupying and ruling Iraq, its considered a conquered territory. If Iraq is under American rule, not Iraqi rule, then Iraq is "oppressed" by Americans. -------------------- man = monkey + mushroom Edited by pattern (08/11/03 11:21 AM)
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member Registered: 08/09/03 Posts: 142 Last seen: 22 years, 10 months |
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-The link you posted is not a credible source. Show me something from any major news network (i.e. foxnews, cnn, nbc, abc... ) that says the same thing. I could just as easily create a website that says the exact opposite of what that website says.
- We did not target civilian structures. Showing me show dead Iraqis does not prove that we targeted civilian structures. Do you have any evidence that shows we targeted civilian structures? - I'll admit I was wrong on the population thing according to that site. How is the USA oppressing the Iraqi's? By giving them freedom of speech and assembly? The only people we could possibly be oppressing are Sadam supporting radicals and these people don't deserve the most basic human rights anyways.
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