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OfflineDogomush
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Registered: 10/05/02
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: FileSoup]
    #1801406 - 08/11/03 01:33 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

If you mean prices, look at what regulation did to the drug (prescription, not illicit) industry in Canada. When the government began to regulate drug prices companies starting failing.

hehe well guess what? Canadians pay 67% less for the same prescription drugs than americans.

article


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OfflineDogomush
Barbless Aryan

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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: FileSoup]
    #1801417 - 08/11/03 01:36 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

The only people we could possibly be oppressing are Sadam supporting radicals and these people don't deserve the most basic human rights anyways.

careful dude. you're throwing away basic pillars of democracy, freedom, human rights etc.


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OfflineFileSoup
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: Dogomush]
    #1801464 - 08/11/03 01:48 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Well first of all the article says, "Americans pay 67 per cent more for their prescription drugs than do Canadian consumers." Not : "Canadians pay 67% less for the same prescription drugs than americans." It's not the same thing.

We make a trade off in the USA. We are the leader in the world in the field of medicine. If we subsidized drugs for the American people then all of the drug companies in this country would go out of business. This would mean we would no longer have the best health care in the world.

Just some food for thought: Could it be possible Americans pay 67% more for drugs than Canadians because Americans are getting better drugs?


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OfflineFileSoup
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: Dogomush]
    #1801483 - 08/11/03 01:54 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Anybody who supports using deadly posinous gas against the Kurds, and mass genocide of other peoples (not to mention all the other atrocious things done.. like throwing prisoners feet first in wood chippers) does not deserve their own human rights.

Sadam Hussien's Atrocities


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: FileSoup]
    #1801625 - 08/11/03 02:23 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Impeaching the president ... that is not a solution to our economy, war in Iraq, or any other issues in America. Bashing the president is not a solution.

I think it is a solution, maybe not one that you particularly like, but a solution nonetheless.

Good point that Iraq War is not over. Are they not freed from an evil dictator though? They have basic freedoms now such as freedom of speech, whereas before they could have been jailed for that.

Iraqis don't all have freedom of speech, newspapers are banned from printing certain things about the occupying powers, and raids and arrests have already happened. The Iraqis don't even have a constitution to enforce any rights anyway.

- Are you blaming America for the poor conditions over there? It sounds like you are saying its the American's fault that Iraqis did not have medical supplies, food and clothing.

The US was one of the most vocal nations in making sure that the sanctions against Iraq were kept in force, even when other nations wanted to ease the restrictions to allow things like medical supplies.
Not to mention that fact that clean water, proper sanitation, and electricity are all still extremely sporadic, which doesn't exactly help in running a hospital.

-The link you posted is not a credible source. Show me something from any major news network (i.e. foxnews, cnn, nbc, abc... ) that says the same thing. I could just as easily create a website that says the exact opposite of what that website says.

Are you serious? You won't consider anything 'credible' unless it's one of the major US networks (Fox?!)?

We did not target civilian structures. Showing me show dead Iraqis does not prove that we targeted civilian structures. Do you have any evidence that shows we targeted civilian structures?

Do you think that Iraqi civilians just hang around military buildings all day long waiting to get shot? If Iraqi civilians are getting killed and injured, then many of them are probably in civilian areas when it happens.
For starters, how about the US tank that fired on the Palestine Hotel and killed those journalists?

Here are some photos of destroyed civilian buildings, I hope the LA Times and the BBC are 'credible' enough for you.










--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: Edame]
    #1801708 - 08/11/03 02:42 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Ever heard of collateral damage buddy? It is a war. In war innocents die. Sad but true. The US military has done all that can be done to protect civilians. To much IMO in some cases.


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: shakta]
    #1801728 - 08/11/03 02:48 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I understand that, but I was making the point to FileSoup, who stated "We did not target civilian structures.". I guess unless FOX news reports it, it just isn't true.

#edit# How exactly can the US do "too much" to protect innocent lives that they claim to be 'liberating'? What in your opinion is a justifiable level of destruction that civilans can take? Is there a magic number? Have we done too much if we only kill a few thousand?


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


Edited by Edame (08/11/03 02:51 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: Edame]
    #1801752 - 08/11/03 02:55 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Edame said:
I understand that, but I was making the point to FileSoup, who stated "We did not target civilian structures.". I guess unless FOX news reports it, it just isn't true.

#edit# How exactly can the US do "too much" to protect innocent lives that they claim to be 'liberating'? What in your opinion is a justifiable level of destruction that civilans can take? Is there a magic number? Have we done too much if we only kill a few thousand?



Target meaning deliberately aim for. Are you suggesting we went out of our way to target , hit, and destroy civilian targets? If that's what you are suggesting, please provide some evidence that we did so deliberately.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1801763 - 08/11/03 02:58 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I'm suggesting exactly that, this dates back to April:

Quote:

U.S. hopes Saddam was killed in strike on Baghdad restaurant

BY LIZ SLY
Chicago Tribune

BAGHDAD, Iraq - (KRT) - The unmistakable odor of death rises from the huge crater in Baghdad's Al Mansour district, where U.S. officials hope Saddam Hussein met his end.

More than a week after the attack that the Pentagon says targeted a restaurant Saddam had entered just minutes earlier, there still are bodies, or body parts, buried beneath the jumble of mud, rubble and scraps of clothing at the bottom of the 60-foot hole left by the bombing.

It is unlikely, however, that Saddam or his family were among those killed, according to residents of the street where the bombs struck on April 7. The Al Sa'ah restaurant, which was owned by Saddam's son Udai, backs onto the street, but the bombs hit two nearby homes inhabited by families, one Shiite and one Christian, who were well known in the area, neighbors say.

At least nine bodies were pulled from the wreckage, including the wife and three children of the Shiite civilian pilot who owned one of the houses and five relatives of a Christian man who owned a liquor store nearby and had fled to Mosul, leaving relatives to take care of his house.

Although neighbors did not know the relatives, they say there was no reason to believe any of them was connected to Saddam or his regime.

"These were ordinary people's homes, and they were ordinary people who died," said Maria Marcos, 38, an employee of the German Embassy who lives five houses away. "I'm sure Saddam wasn't here."

As the fighting winds down, the question of what happened to Saddam lingers as one of the biggest unanswered questions of the war.

U.S. officials say they have acquired DNA samples that will help them to determine if remains recovered from the Al Mansour site and others hit during the war belong to Saddam or members of his family. They say they are surveying several sites, though their claim that they had good intelligence that Saddam was in the Al Mansour area suggests they believe he survived an attempt to kill him on the first night of the war.

Although neighbors think it unlikely Saddam or his sons were in either of the homes that were hit, they do suspect he may have been in the area during the last days of the war. Several residents said they noticed unfamiliar cars moving around the area, and Saddam's sons, Udai and Qusai, were regular visitors to the restaurant.

"Nobody saw Saddam, but his bodyguards were here," said Rami Raad, 15, who lives on an adjoining street. "In the last days of the war, there were many different, modern cars coming through this way, armored cars with shaded windows with armed men."

The restaurant was heavily damaged but not destroyed in the blast, and people living in homes closer to the site of the bomb strike were uninjured.

The restaurant was closed during the war, but there were people in it at the time of the attack, according to Nada Al Imam, who lives in the house immediately to the left of the homes that were hit, and whose kitchen adjoins the restaurant's kitchen. She was washing dishes and heard men quarreling loudly in the restaurant immediately before the bombs struck.

Most people living in the street say they suspect the house to the right of the two destroyed homes may have been used by Saddam, or other senior leadership figures, as a hiding place during the war. The modest, two-story home had been bought by a military officer shortly before the war, but no one had noticed anyone moving in. Yusuf Rabieh, a university administrator who lives next door to the house, said the gate was always locked and he assumed the house was empty.

Yet neighbors who entered the badly damaged house after the strike point to evidence that it had been used recently. There was a sack of fresh rolls in the kitchen, and a pot of rice sat on a brand-new dining room table. There were new beds in two of the rooms, and there were supplies, since stolen, of Pepsi and mineral water. The house had five telephone lines, a privilege that would have been accorded only to senior Baath Party members.

No one rules out the possibility that Saddam or his sons were killed or injured by flying glass or shrapnel in any of the buildings nearby. The way in which the regime crumbled in the hours after the bombing lends credence to suspicions that at least some of the senior leadership died or disappeared at that time, Marcos said.




--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineFileSoup
member
Registered: 08/09/03
Posts: 142
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: Edame]
    #1801765 - 08/11/03 02:59 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

-Explain how impeaching the president would solve our foreign policy problems and economic problems.  Impeach him for getting us out of the Clinton-Gore recession?  :tongue:

-They don't have rights like Americans have rights but now they have more rights than they used to.

-So you blame the US for poor living standards in Iraq?  How about the evil dictator in power who slaughted hundreds of thousands of people?  Could that have anything to do with it?

-Yes, I don't consider EVERYTHING on the internet credible.  Did you look at that website?  An amatuer programmer/website desginer could easily make a site like that with anything he wants on it. 

- I listed 4 networks.. yet you pointed out Fox.  Fox is arguably the most balanced news network in the world.  It also has higher ratings than any other news network.  That is because people are fed up with liberal bias in the media and want balanced views, not liberal views.

- It is a war.  Mistakes happen in war.  You didn't show me anything that has shown the USA purposely targeted civilians.  How do pictures of dead people and blown up building show that we intentionally killed civilians?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: Edame]
    #1801768 - 08/11/03 03:01 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

So we target a restaurant with a valuable military target, and that means we targeted (plural) civilian targets? One building targeted does not make a pattern.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineshakta
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Registered: 06/03/03
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: Edame]
    #1801771 - 08/11/03 03:01 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Obviously every life that can be spared is worthy. There is no magic number. His point is that we have not targeted civillian buildings intentionally, except for a couple of instances. One would be if we are being attacked from the building, and another would be if we are trying to kill someone inside the building, like in the sons case.

At some point though trying to fight a "PC" war can cause more damage than it prevents. One example would be not shooting back at mosques. I understand the principle behind it, but to me it is not worth the risk of soldiers lives. Any restrictions on the rules of engagement that put the soldiers at a higher risk is going to far to me. That is what I am talking about, when I say going to far to protect the civilians. No war in history has been fought to protect the population like this one has. I think the military has done a good job of minimizing collateral damage.

I am not saying that I think they should just kill everyone that moves. We are doing some things over their to minimize the impact the raids and things like it have on the people. Instead of forming a cordon, and kicking the door of a building down, we cordon and knock now. That is what they tried to do with Uday and Qusay.



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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: FileSoup]
    #1801777 - 08/11/03 03:04 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

I think you're a puppet, just my opinion, but I find it hard to imagine you saying that you think FOX is one of "the most balanced news networks in the world" with a straight face.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1801789 - 08/11/03 03:06 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

It was never proven that there was a "valuable military target" there in the first place. I cited that as one example, but I get the feeling that it won't matter how many stories I could post anyway.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlineshakta
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Registered: 06/03/03
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: Edame]
    #1801791 - 08/11/03 03:07 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Claiming to like Fox News makes you a puppet? That is a good one.


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: shakta]
    #1801794 - 08/11/03 03:08 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Not just that, pretty much everything SHe's posted until now. Like I said, just my opinion.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: Edame]
    #1801796 - 08/11/03 03:08 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Saddam was thought to have been in the building. That makes it a credible military target.


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OfflineFileSoup
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: Edame]
    #1801799 - 08/11/03 03:09 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

What do you consider to be the most balanced news network? On Fox news they either report the straight facts or they have a group of people discuss current issues. The groups of people that debate and the people they invite on are about 50/50 Democrat/Republican. For example the show Hannity and Colmes. Sean Hannity is a Republican and Alan Colmes is a Democrat. How is fox news unbalanced?


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: shakta]
    #1801805 - 08/11/03 03:11 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

That's where our differing value systems come into play. Would you bomb a packed schoolyard if you thought Saddam was in there?

Saddam may be a 'bad man', but I don't see how it makes any of us better if we have the same disregard for Iraqi lives.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,245
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Re: Recent Gore speech [Re: Edame]
    #1801807 - 08/11/03 03:12 PM (18 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Edame said:
It was never proven that there was a "valuable military target" there in the first place. I cited that as one example, but I get the feeling that it won't matter how many stories I could post anyway.


Proven? Nope.
Disproven? Nope.

Your use of that incident was pretty lame as the leader of a country is a legitimate military target, hence the building he was in was fair game.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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