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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: liquidlounge]
    #17490862 -

liquidlounge said:
You asked me how nature can be right/wrong, i replied with humans, you said this was wrong but now you say this does exist in the nature?



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As far as I assume to know...

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Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: liquidlounge]
    #17490869 -

Look humans can entertain concepts of right and wrong but that does not mean nature is right or wrong in itself.  That's what I've been getting at all along as I'm pretty sure you are aware of.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: Icelander]
    #17490950 -

So, then you do find that to be more true than "nature cant be right or wrong"?

Or do you find what you cant know to be more true than something you assume to be true?


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As far as I assume to know...

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Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: liquidlounge]
    #17491342 -

It's a best guess. 

Let's approach  it from this angle.  Can you give me examples of nature being right and examples of nature being wrong and why that's so?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: circastes] * 1
    #17491439 -

the natural energies and powers flow through them more readily

You forgot to mention that the universal flimdorm flows through white people's butt chakra more readily too because their subluxations are framelgogged and align better with their rising house, or apartment or whatever. :flowstone:

It's amazing how people misuse the word "energy" without any idea what it even means.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: Icelander]
    #17491527 -

Can you give me examples of nature being right and examples of nature being wrong



--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: Icelander]
    #17491554 -

Icelander said:
It's a best guess. 

Let's approach  it from this angle.  Can you give me examples of nature being right and examples of nature being wrong and why that's so?


I can only speak for myself as a human so yes i assume to know it exists right and or wrong in nature. I cant say whether nature as a whole is right or wrong. We agree on this.

But i do find this "it exists right and or wrong in nature" more valid or true than "nature cant be right or wrong". Do you think the same?

The first i assume to know, the other i dont know anything about.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

Edited by liquidlounge (01/03/13 01:15 PM)

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Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: liquidlounge]
    #17491754 -

I'd like to hear your examples.  (come on lets see em)

My position was never that humans can't think something about nature is wrong or right. It was that nature itself is not wrong or right and I've maybe said that to you three times. And you've hardly answered any direct questions.

And yet you've accused me of dodging.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: liquidlounge]
    #17491881 -

right and or wrong in nature

Right and wrong are judgements. If humans didn't exist to judge things as right or wrong, how would it be possible to know if something in nature was right or wrong?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: Icelander]
    #17492016 -

Come on, examples on what i as a human find right and or wrong? Thats not necessary to give you examples of, id say all we do is based on right/wrong. This way, right/wrong exist in nature through humans.

Humans are in one way nature itself or else it would not be spoken about/"made" by humans but at the same time we're only a part of nature itself. Would nature exist without humans?

The whole thing began with you stating "All actions by all beings fall into the realm of natural. So there's nothing right or wrong good or bad, no order or disorder no beneficial or not beneficial.", to me this sounded like there does not exist right or wrong in nature. Humans go with right/wrong and humans go hand in hand with nature so IMO its clear that right/wrong exist in nature.

liquidlounge said:
But i do find this "it exists right and or wrong in nature" more valid or true than "nature cant be right or wrong". Do you think the same?



--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

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Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: Diploid]
    #17492024 -

Its not possible to know whether something in nature was/is right or wrong without humans, i never claimed anything around that.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

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Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: liquidlounge]
    #17492051 -

to me this sounded like there does not exist right or wrong in nature.

Well you're wrong.  I never said that and I told you what I  meant and my position  many times in this discussion which you have chosen to ignore.    You cling to a position that is not  what we are discussing.

I'll say it again. Nature's actions are neither right or wrong as far as we can determine with any certainty.  We only have our subjective views on right and wrong and humans don't even agree about them.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: liquidlounge]
    #17492057 -

Its not possible to know whether something in nature was/is right or wrong without humans

Then what you're talking about is not right/wrong in nature but human judgement of right/wrong in nature. Which supports Icelander's assertion that right/wrong itself doesn't exist in nature. What does exist is human JUDGEMENT of right/wrong.

Judgement exists, not right/wrong.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: Icelander]
    #17492107 -

Third time i am asking you this

liquidlounge said:
But i do find this "it exists right and or wrong in nature" more valid or true than "nature cant be right or wrong". Do you think the same?




--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: liquidlounge] * 1
    #17492148 -

That statement makes no sense to me.  It's an unknown and not worth discussion.  I've already stated that we don't know if there is an ultimate right or wrong in nature therefore it would all have to be subjective.  As far as we know nature is just nature and neither right or wrong.  AS FAR AS WE KNOW. That's been my position all along.

I'm about done discussing this if you are not going to do it in good faith.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: Diploid]
    #17492149 -

Diploid said:
Its not possible to know whether something in nature was/is right or wrong without humans

Then what you're talking about is not right/wrong in nature but human judgement of right/wrong in nature. Which supports Icelander's assertion that right/wrong itself doesn't exist in nature. What does exist is human JUDGEMENT of right/wrong.

Judgement exists, not right/wrong.


Well to me, right/wrong does exist whether its in under "judgement", moral or existence. Its here and its deeply integrated in nature THROUGH humans.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

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Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: liquidlounge]
    #17492166 -

What does that have to do with whether nature itself is right or wrong?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: Icelander]
    #17492218 -

Icelander said:
That statement makes no sense to me.  It's an unknown and not worth discussion.


You just cant answer it IN GOOD FAITH so maybe i can make a point out of it, alright.

Icelander said:
What does that have to do with whether nature itself is right or wrong?


Lets not do this one more time...


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

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Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: liquidlounge]
    #17492381 -

Bye.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Anti-white sentiment and white guilt [Re: Icelander]
    #17492399 -

If you want to do it all over again i suggest you read page #2 and #3, feel free to do it til you see my point.


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...

Edited by liquidlounge (01/03/13 04:20 PM)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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