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Depression is a modern phenomenon * 2
    #16900856 -

This is hypothesis, not fact.

When man had to spend almost every waking moment trying to stay warm and dry, or feeding his belly or fighting for his mate or protecting his family or running from predators, I doubt depression existed at all.

I think it only came into being after the advent of agriculture and cities when more time was freed up to think and ponder. Then some philosopher planted the seed of purpose.

If you doubt this, picture yourself alone in the woods being chased by a bear or pack of wild dogs without a weapon. There will be no thought of how much your life sucks or what your grand purpose is. All vestige of that would quickly drop away to insignificance. Your purpose is to stay alive. Simple and to the point.

Modern day people feel thay must have some purpose to save the planet or feed the hungry or create a self-monument to their greatness or some such lofty goal. Nothing wrong with that, but neither is it necessary for a fulfilled and contented life.


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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (09/24/12 02:15 PM)

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16901147 -

Don't feel bad you waste all day on the Shroomery.  It really won't matter in a few years.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #16901554 -

Personally, I rather have the thoughts, than not being able to think at all.

Depression a modern convention? I am not sure about that one either. If it is true that psychology is a modern convention also, then it goes without mentioning that depression may have been an issue in the past also, but perhaps not clearly understood/defined.

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16902656 -

Apparently with the advent of farming things like arthiritis and other physical ailments started to occur and general health went down. The only reason it was stuck with was because it became hard to sustain a burgeoning population who no longer had anything to do but procreate on the abundant natural resource, it had not been benefical for us up until we outgrew the natural resources.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: Grapefruit]
    #16902943 -

I've thought about this as well. Joe Rogan mentions it in one of his recent podcasts talking about  indigenous people in the tundra who live cave man style basically, and are the happy as fuck in doing so.

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16904530 -

We can't really go back in time and measure if we were depressed at all, so I guess proving animals can get depressed in the wild could be something used to support or debunk your hypothesis. I've heard of animals committing suicide, but I'm not sure how much this was intentional. And if it was intention, what were the reasons? I'm guessing you're right with your hypothesis though, but more evidence would be nice.


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"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16905569 -

i think the hypothesis in the op is a bit muddled. on the one hand it seems to imply that prosperity is a cause for depression which just seems wrong.

on the other hand it says that the idea of purpose is a cause for depression which seems more correct.

in the op the hypothetical non depressed jungle people existed prior to the idea of purpose and so were neither with or without one. but even such people i would bet, could become depressed. if say one was ostracized from the community and despised by all, and had to live out the rest of his days remorsefully alone, i bet something like depression would arise.

this is why i think it is not just purpose and also that the very idea of 'purpose' only makes sense in a social context. even the most ego inflated messianic delusion ultimately sees his purpose as serving humanity... so i think purpose is always about serving some kind of role in a group.

unfortunately western culture has the tendency to isolate people, force them into competition and downplay interdependence and community...
imo this is the main cause for modern depression.


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dripping with fantasy

Edited by quinn (09/25/12 04:36 AM)

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #16906447 -

dustinthewind13 said:
We can't really go back in time and measure if we were depressed at all, so I guess proving animals can get depressed in the wild could be something used to support or debunk your hypothesis. I've heard of animals committing suicide, but I'm not sure how much this was intentional. And if it was intention, what were the reasons? I'm guessing you're right with your hypothesis though, but more evidence would be nice.


I read a story about a bear that killed her cub and herself when they were held captive in China. They will keep bears in cages that don't allow for movement, cut open a hole in them, and milk their gall bladders for the mystical properties of the bile. Isn't mysticism great?

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: quinn]
    #16906530 -

I think OC had it right here. Thought it's maybe a little extreme to suggest no depression at all it's also missing the main point. It is our sense of things being either good or bad with the world that has lead to our elusive search for a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. This has arisen IMO because the urgency has gone from our practical needs, creating and endorsing a new unconscious dream like state where we fritter away our days in eternity.

This dreamscape we have created is the wellspring of everything 21st century right down to the sense of pride we have in our music like and dislikes, our concern for celebrities and next door neighbours, the deepest of our paranoias. Our psychology is hinged upon it. How fast does ms. nameless' concern for bradd pitts and angelina jolies affairs when she is in the middle of the jungle and must watch out for an array of terrifying circumstance. There she must confront the truth of her situation and quickly come to some kind of peace with it if she is to survive. It's a much faster way into the now than focussing on some nameless spiritual energy for sure.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: Grapefruit]
    #16906730 -

being thrown into the jungle would certainly put things into perspective.

but i think the critical moment is not when that person is struggling with nature, but when they have time to reflect, maybe dozing in a tree or whatever. at these times i think you will find the recurrence of the 'pot o gold'. some kind of hope, in the benevolence of god, or of seeing their family again, or returning to society to write a best seller, or maybe all they really want is to find out if angie and brad survived the latest scandal, maybe they have kids now?


without this kind of hope and driven only by the realities of survival i think they would have a much harder time, and imo it would not be inconceivable that they would succumb to some kind of apathy or depression, and i could imagine their survival being a rather unhappy one or short lived.

but my main point here is that you seem to underplay the importance of our social nature. i see the reality in all these fantasies and pots of gold at their point of contact with the social world. it is from there that they originate. we are social animals. we need other people. we do not need to depend entirely on ourselves, and we shouldnt have to either. imo thinking a person ought to brave it alone is like saying an ant or a cow, ought to brave it alone to learn something about life. i think the cow would probably grow rather gloomy, dont you?

i think depriving someone from this social stuff is depriving them from an essential part of their being. and i think happiness in the times when we arent just surviving, comes mostly from social interaction, playfullness, friendliness etc... imo the social world and how it is set up is where to look for causes of modern depression, not just the absurdity of our dreams (our dreams have always been rather absurd).


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dripping with fantasy

Edited by quinn (09/25/12 08:48 AM)

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16906838 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
If you doubt this, picture yourself alone in the woods being chased by a bear or pack of wild dogs without a weapon. There will be no thought of how much your life sucks or what your grand purpose is.


I think you have found a new treatment for depression. I wonder how popular it will be.

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: Memories]
    #16906847 -

Memories said:
dustinthewind13 said:
We can't really go back in time and measure if we were depressed at all, so I guess proving animals can get depressed in the wild could be something used to support or debunk your hypothesis. I've heard of animals committing suicide, but I'm not sure how much this was intentional. And if it was intention, what were the reasons? I'm guessing you're right with your hypothesis though, but more evidence would be nice.


I read a story about a bear that killed her cub and herself when they were held captive in China. They will keep bears in cages that don't allow for movement, cut open a hole in them, and milk their gall bladders for the mystical properties of the bile. Isn't mysticism great?


No scientists are ever mean to animals. Silver Spring monkeys


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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: Absolute]
    #16906858 -

Absolute said:
I think you have found a new treatment for depression. I wonder how popular it will be.


popular with the bears and wild dogs at least


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dripping with fantasy

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16907175 -

OC -  I don't agree with your hypothesis - animals in the wild get depressed. Many studies have been done on this.


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:brainondrugs:

You are not special :haha:

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #16907734 -

tymoteusz3 said:
OC -  I don't agree with your hypothesis - animals in the wild get depressed. Many studies have been done on this.


Source?


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"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #16907777 -

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions/201111/grief-mourning-and-broken-hearted-animals

Just did a quick google search.

Follow the links in the article for more info.


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:brainondrugs:

You are not special :haha:

Edited by Cyclohexylamine (09/25/12 01:21 PM)

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #16907812 -

Sadness and grief <> depression.


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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #16908197 -

Wanna see the opposite? This is one of the coolest animal videos I've seen. I dunno if animals can get depressed or not, but they clearly have emotions. Every time I watch this I can't help but to smile:



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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #16908204 -

tymoteusz3 said:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animal-emotions/201111/grief-mourning-and-broken-hearted-animals

Just did a quick google search.

Follow the links in the article for more info.


I killed one Mourning Dove and the other one is in mourning too.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Re: Depression is a modern phenomenon [Re: Diploid]
    #16908231 -

Years back I had to give away my cat of three years. We were best buds. I found him a good home and went to visit a month later. He totally ignored me. :cryariver:


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