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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Howard Dean: The last true liberal
    #1671129 - 06/29/03 10:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Too bad he probably won't get the nomination. :sad:


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: silversoul7]
    #1671143 - 06/29/03 11:08 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

its funny how in america, liberals are soo often villified, but in canada, they have a federalist government and control (almost) everything.

funny...funny stuff.


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enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: silversoul7]
    #1671233 - 06/29/03 12:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You must not be famaliar with the Dennis Kucinich campaign... I suggest you look in to him.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1671235 - 06/29/03 12:26 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, I'm aware of Kucinich, but IMO he doesn't have as much credibility(or charisma) as Dean.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: silversoul7]
    #1671242 - 06/29/03 12:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Then you're not famaliar with his political history. If you've heard him speak you'de know the fiery passion he brings to an audience. I suggest you look further in to it. He's the only candidate that promises to end the WoD.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1671248 - 06/29/03 12:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You have a point. I can't find anywhere where Dean states his position on the Drug War. But in the debates, Kucinich comes off a little TOO fiery and pissed off.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: silversoul7]
    #1671259 - 06/29/03 12:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Kucinich is the guy that started in a majority GOP district and got it to the point that it votes 70% democratic. He can win if he can get the nomination. He'll stop Bush's fascist aspirations, stop the drug war, and socialize medicine. Only bad thing about him is he's a gun banner like all the other dems. But to preserve democracy I'm willing to vote for him, just once.

www.kucinich.us


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1671261 - 06/29/03 12:53 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Only bad thing about him is he's a gun banner like all the other dems.



It's funny you mention that, because Howard Dean ISN'T a gun banner.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Dennis Kucinich: The last true liberal [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1671263 - 06/29/03 12:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

MOVEON PRIMARY: KUCINICH SCORES BIG

An elated Dennis Kucinich commented on the MoveOn vote: "This is a great showing and a tremendous victory for our campaign. Thanks to everyone who worked on his 'First Primary.' You proved the media pundits wrong, and you'll keep proving them wrong throughout the campaign."

If early primaries are about beating expectations, then the clear winner of the MoveOn Primary is Dennis Kucinich. He won 76,000 votes, 2nd place and 24% of the total.

While pundits have tried to relegate us to "fringe" or "2nd tier" status, Democratic voters have finally had their say: "Kucinich is in the top tier." This vote reflects what the Kucinich campaign has been seeing in the field -- the biggest crowds and biggest audience response.

The Dean Campaign did not exceed expectations -- since many thought, given his early start and Internet presence, he'd reach 50% and win MoveOn's endorsement. The Kerry Campaign did not -- it is the best-funded, highest-polling campaign.

It's the Kucinich Campaign that scored big today.

Our fundraising and support base have surged in the last two weeks, partly due to the MoveOn campaign. It's another reason Kucinich is the winner -- because his Internet outreach effort is poised for geometric growth.

Kucinich commented: "As this process goes on, and the differences in the candidates' positions become known to Democratic voters, we are poised to move on and move up."

Top MoveOn vote-getters 1) Dean 44%, 139,000 2) Kucinich 24%, 76,000 3) Kerry 16%, 50,000 (Each of the other six candidates, most considered 'top tier' by mainstream media, received 3% or less).


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: silversoul7]
    #1671267 - 06/29/03 12:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

Only bad thing about him is he's a gun banner like all the other dems.



It's funny you mention that, because Howard Dean ISN'T a gun banner.



If he's a democrat he'll be one. Look at Al Gore. When he was a senator from tennasee he pretended to be gun friendly but then switched sides to get in with the big fish in the democrat party.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1671271 - 06/29/03 12:57 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

If he's a democrat he'll be one. Look at Al Gore. When he was a senator from tennasee he pretended to be gun friendly but then switched sides to get in with the big fish in the democrat party.




In his interview on Meet The Press, he said that he believes states should write their own gun control laws that work best for those states. Also, he's a straight-shooter(no pun intended). Al Gore is not.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: silversoul7]
    #1671277 - 06/29/03 01:01 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

silversoul7 said:
Quote:

If he's a democrat he'll be one. Look at Al Gore. When he was a senator from tennasee he pretended to be gun friendly but then switched sides to get in with the big fish in the democrat party.




In his interview on Meet The Press, he said that he believes states should write their own gun control laws that work best for those states. Also, he's a straight-shooter(no pun intended). Al Gore is not.



If he said he favors states imposing their own gun control he has made a statement in favor of gun control while leaving he door open to sponsoring and signing in to law federal gun banning measures. He's a politician, same as Gore. He has as much in common with you and me as a 3 toes sloth. He's a politicritter, don't mistake him for anything else.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1671288 - 06/29/03 01:05 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

No, what he was saying is that he would leave it up to the states to make the gun control laws that make the most sense for those states and that the federal government shouldn't be making gun control laws for the whole country. He's endorsing state's rights here.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: silversoul7]
    #1671295 - 06/29/03 01:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You're mistaken. He's in favor of gun control. It's not a states rights issue. States don't have the right to ban guns. The bill of rights says "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." He says he's in favor of states being able to violate the bill of rights on 2nd amendment issues. He has not stated that he opposes federal gun bans/registration. He intentionally leaves that door wide open.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: silversoul7]
    #1671529 - 06/29/03 03:20 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Unless he wants to end the war on drugs he won't get my vote.




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Offlinesomebodyelse
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: Learyfan]
    #1671561 - 06/29/03 03:42 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Are you in a dem safe state? Let's not fuck around in 2004 - Bush must be kicked out. I don't believe the dems are lightyears different (holding you in a headlock rather than fucking you through your earholes) but Bush is a disaster.

I like Kucinich but I don't believe he can appeal to the right. Dean **is** soft on gun control, thus he *can* pick up right votes. Plus he's progressive on energy - he pledges to get the country onto 15% sustainable energy by 2010. A Dean /Kucinich ticket would be roses compared to Bush.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1671566 - 06/29/03 03:45 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rail_Gun said:
You're mistaken. He's in favor of gun control. It's not a states rights issue. States don't have the right to ban guns. The bill of rights says "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." He says he's in favor of states being able to violate the bill of rights on 2nd amendment issues. He has not stated that he opposes federal gun bans/registration. He intentionally leaves that door wide open.




This surprises you? Gephardt has said he would overturn Supreme Court decisions he did not like. The Dems seem to have no problem running over the Constitution.


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Offlinesomebodyelse
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: shakta]
    #1671585 - 06/29/03 03:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Why do gun afvocates *always* leave out the "well regulated militia" clause of the 2nd amendment?

And, do you believe that the right to bear arms includes, say, nukes? At what point should the line be drawn?


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: shakta]
    #1671586 - 06/29/03 03:54 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
Quote:

Rail_Gun said:
You're mistaken. He's in favor of gun control. It's not a states rights issue. States don't have the right to ban guns. The bill of rights says "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." He says he's in favor of states being able to violate the bill of rights on 2nd amendment issues. He has not stated that he opposes federal gun bans/registration. He intentionally leaves that door wide open.




This surprises you? Gephardt has said he would overturn Supreme Court decisions he did not like. The Dems seem to have no problem running over the Constitution.



No, it doesn't surprise me at all. I was explaining it to someone that doesn't understand.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Howard Dean: The last true liberal [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1671588 - 06/29/03 03:55 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I know that is what you were doing. The Dems don't seem to have much to offer in the upcoming election.


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