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InvisibleEdame
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Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Howard Dean?
    #1681309 - 07/02/03 09:33 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not American, so I'm not exactly up to speed on all of the people running for prez, but I thought that this speech was quite good:

Quote:

Today I announce that I am running for President of the United States of America. I speak not only for my candidacy. I speak for a new American century and a new generation of Americans -- both young people and the young at heart. We seek the great restoration of American values and the restoration of our nation's traditional purpose in the world.


This is a campaign to unite and empower people everywhere.

It is a call to every American, regardless of party, to join together in common purpose and for the common good to save and restore all that it means to be an American.

Over a year ago I began to travel the country in the usual way one does when seeking the Presidency.

I believed that, by running for President, I could raise the issues of health care for every American and the need to focus on early childhood development. I wanted to bring those issues to the forefront of the national debate. And I wanted to balance the budget to bring financial stability and jobs back to America.

Most importantly, I have wanted my party to stand up for what we believe in again.

But something changed along the way as I listened to Americans around this country. On my first trip to Iowa I heard people speak of a profound fear and distrust of multi-national corporations. From New Hampshire to Texas I met Americans doubting the words of our leaders and our government in Washington. Every where I go people are asking fundamental questions: Who can we trust? Is the media reporting the truth? What is happening to our country?

The Americans I have met love their country. They believe deeply in its promise, our values and our principles. But they know something is wrong and they want to take action. They want to do something to right our path. But they feel Washington isn't listening. And as individuals, they lack the power to change the course those in Washington have put us on.

What they know is that somehow 7 trillion dollars of our country's wealth disappeared. Nearly 1 in 10 retired people have had to return to the workforce because they have lost their pensions. Young people are returning to live at home after graduating because they cannot find work.

Companies are leaving the country to avoid paying taxes, or to avoid paying people livable wages. And corporations are doing this with the support of the government and a political process in Washington that they rent -- if not own.

This was the fear that James Madison and Thomas Jefferson spoke of -- the fear that economic power would one day try to seize political power.

Theodore Roosevelt said it best, "Every special interest is entitled to justice full, fair and complete....but not one is entitled to a vote in Congress, to a voice on the bench or to representation in any public office."

Today, our nation is in crisis. At home, this crisis manifests itself in this President's destruction of the idea of community. This President pushes forward an agenda and policies which divide us. He advocates economic polices which beggar the middle class and raise property taxes so that income taxes may be cut for those who ran Enron.

He divides us by race by using the word quota, which appeals to the worst in us by instilling fear that people of color might take our jobs or our places in the nation's best universities. Even the most conservative Supreme Court since the Dred Scott decision did not completely agree with the President's attack on diversity and community that includes all Americans.

He divides us by gender by attacking a woman's right to make her own health care decisions. And even by attacking young women's right to have the same athletic opportunities that young men do. He divides us by sexual orientation by supporting senators who have slandered gay Americans, and he appeals once again to the worst instincts within us, instead of that which is good in all Americans.

The tax cuts that are the radicals' weapon are not about tax cuts for working people. They are not even about tax cuts for millionaires. Instead, the tax cuts are designed to destroy Social Security, Medicare, our public schools and our public services through starvation and privatization.

Our President and too many in Washington are giving away our future so that we pass to our children not a flickering flame of freedom but the chain of insurmountable debt.

No parent would do this and America must not do this.

And so for me the long journey of a Presidential campaign has begun with the people I have met affecting me far more than any affect I may have had on them. And because of that, the reasons why I seek the Presidency have changed.

This campaign is about more than issue differences on health care, tax cuts, national security, jobs, the environment and our economy. It is about something as important as our children. It's about who we are as Americans.

Here are the words of John Winthrop: "We shall be as one. We must delight in each other, make other's conditions our own; rejoice together, mourn together, labor and suffer together, always living before our eyes our Commission and Community in our work."

It is that ideal, the ideal of the American community, that we seek to restore.

An America where it is not enough for me to want health care for my family but the obligation, and responsibility of every one of us as American citizens to insure that each one of us has health care for our families.

An America where it is not enough for me to want good public schools and a better life for my children but an obligation, and a responsibility as citizens to insure that every child in America may go to a good public school and have the opportunity of a better life.

An America where it is not enough to protect my rights under the law but where it is a duty and an obligation for each of us as Americans to make sure every American is equal under the law.

An America where it is not enough to proclaim the words freedom, self-government, and democracy, but where it is a duty and a responsibility to participate together in common purpose with the sacrifice required of each of us to give those words meaning.

If September 11, 2001 taught America anything it is that we are stronger when we are beholden to each other as a national community, and weaker when we act only as individuals. That tragedy gave us an enormous opportunity to focus not only on our common peril, but also on our common dreams. The peril remains, but the dreams must be resurrected -- and they will be in a new American century.

President Kennedy challenged us to "pass the torch to a new generation of Americans." And so, we must issue that challenge again.

So too must we restore the deepest belief of our people that each generation has a responsibility to pass to our children a nation and a world that is better and stronger than the one that was passed to us.

As we experience the crisis of community at home, we are witnessing the effort to repudiate 225 years of American consensus on what our nation's place should be in the world.

Since the time of Thomas Paine and John Adams, our founders implored that we were not to be the new Rome. We are not to conquer and suppress other nations to submit to our will. We were to inspire them.

The idea of America using its power solely for its own ends is not consistent with the idealistic moral force the world has known for over two centuries.

We must rejoin the world community. America is far stronger as the moral and military leader of the world than we will ever be by relying solely on military power. We destroyed repressive communist regimes without firing a shot, not simply by having a strong military, but because we had a better ideal to show the world.

Every American President must and will take up arms in the defense of our nation. It is a solemn oath that cannot -- and will not -- be compromised.

But there is a fundamental difference between the defense of our nation and the doctrine of preemptive war espoused by this administration. The President's group of narrow-minded ideological advisors are undermining our nation's greatness in the world. They have embraced a form of unilateralism that is even more dangerous than isolationism.

This administration has shown disdain for allies, treaties, and international organizations alike.

In doing so they would throw aside our nation's role as the inspirational leader of the world the beacon of hope and justice in the interests of humankind. And instead, they would present our face to the world as a dominant power prepared to push aside any nation with which we do not agree.

Our foreign and military policies must be about America leading the world, not America against the world.

So how did we come to this point?

How is it that our leaders have abandoned our communities and repudiated our idealism and principles?

When confronted with a dedicated band of right wing ideologues, too many Americans have stopped participating, stopped voting, and stopped believing that they can change America.

And we in politics have not given our people a reason to vote or a reason to participate. We have slavishly spewed sound bites, copying each other while saying little. We raise millions of dollars and each year make lofty promises, while every year the struggles of ordinary Americans increase and fewer Americans vote. Our politicians, many of them good people, have been paralyzed by their fear of losing office. Our leaders have developed a vocabulary which has become meaningless to the American people.

There is no greater example of this than a self-described conservative Republican president who creates the greatest deficits in history of America. Or a President who boasts of a Clear Skies Initiative which allows far more pollution into our air. Or a President who co-opts from an advocacy organization the phrase "No Child Left Behind," while paying for irresponsible tax cuts by cutting children's health care.

Martin Luther King, Jr. said, "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."

The history of our nation is clear: At every turn when there has been an imbalance of power, the truth questioned, or our beliefs and values distorted, the change required to restore our nation has always come from the bottom up from our people.

And so, while the President raises $4 million more tonight to maintain his agenda, we will not be silent.

He calls his biggest fundraisers Rangers and Pioneers.

But today, we stand together with thousands in Burlington, Vermont and tens of thousands more, standing with us right now in every state in this nation. And we call ourselves, simply, Americans.

And we stand today in common purpose to take our country back.

I am a doctor and I was proud to be Governor of Vermont:

* where we balanced our budgets
* where we made sure that nearly every child in our state had health care coverage
* where we are stewards of our land and natural resources
* where, on the first Tuesday of March every year, Vermonters gather to make decisions on matters vital to our communities
* where we hold these truths to be self evident: that all are created equal and are endowed with the inalienable rights of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness
* And, where we, like all Americans, love our country and want to see her flag stand for freedom and justice for all. That flag is not the property of the either party, it belongs to all of us.

It is from this place that the rest of the journey of this campaign continues. We will ask the American people to participate again in our common future. I ask all Americans, regardless of party, to meet with me across the nation to come together in common cause to forge a new American century. Help us in this quest to return greatness, and return high moral purpose to the United States of America.

We are the great grassroots campaign of the modern era, built from mouse pads, shoe leather and hope.

Like MoveOn.org we seek to build a community of millions and strengthen the voice of the people.

And like the founders of our republic, we seek change.

The great lie spoken by politicians on platforms like this is the cry of "elect me and I will solve all your problems."

The truth is the future of our nation rests in your hands, and not in mine.

Abraham Lincoln said that government of the people, by the people and for the people shall not perish from this earth.

But this President has forgotten ordinary people.

You have the power to reclaim our nation's destiny.

You have the power to rid Washington of the politics of money.

You have the power to make right as important as might.

You have the power to give Americans a reason to vote again.

You have the power to restore our nation to fiscal sanity and bring jobs back to our people.

You have the power to fulfill Harry Truman's dream and bring health insurance to every American.

You have the power to give us a foreign policy consistent with American values again.

You have the power to take back the Democratic Party.

You have the power to take our country back.

And we have the power to take the White House back in 2004.




I'd be interested to hear any opinions people might have of Howard Dean or his speech.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Edame]
    #1681591 - 07/02/03 11:28 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

>>>I'd be interested to hear any opinions people might have of Howard Dean or his speech.

***chanting*** Dean Dean the fairy queen! ***chanting***


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineSolo
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1681660 - 07/02/03 11:51 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I heard his name mentioned on a conservative radio talk show today. Seems that the conservatives will be very excited if he gets the Democratic nomination. I don't care about his politics...I vote Libertarian.


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OfflineSlapnutRob
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Solo]
    #1681714 - 07/03/03 12:10 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I am a huge fan of Howard Dean. Conservatives would be excited if he got the nomination becauase they're hoping for a re-run of McGovern vs. Nixon... the last time a real liberal ran for president, and he got trounced. A lot of media pundits believe a true liberal can't win the presidency--Dean is out to set them wrong. He's also not as liberal as they make him out to be... he's pro universal health care, and is generally progressive, but he is also pro gun and I believe pro death penalty. He's also a fierce debater and former doctor. I'd love to see him in a one-on-one with Bush.

I saw that very speech on C-SPAN... that was his official candidacy announcement in Burlington, VT. He just ended his decade-long term as their Governor, where he led them to be one of only five or so states not currently running a deficit, and instituted free health care for all citizens under the age of 18, as well as several other distinguished achievements.

Howard Dean in 04!!


--------------------
Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Edame]
    #1681788 - 07/03/03 12:34 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

If he is for the war on drugs, he is corrupt.

If he is against the war on drugs, there is a chance that he is a not corrupt.





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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: BLC - I Don't Wanna Go



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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1681825 - 07/03/03 12:45 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

^^^^^^^^^A little simplistic, wouldn't you say?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1681865 - 07/03/03 01:05 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

They're all for the war on drugs. But you must vote, otherwise Bush might get re-elected!


--------------------


Edited by Zahid (07/03/03 01:07 AM)


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OfflineMalachi
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Zahid]
    #1681960 - 07/03/03 01:32 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

no, actually I think dean is the most pot friendly of them. the whole homosexual thing is actually really closely tied to the whole pot thing. lawmakers understand that pot laws are basically trite moral judgements, but have traditionally figured that this is a right of the majority. with homosexuals, the majority wants to impose said trite moral judgement, but hold up: fucking is obviously your own fucking business. and, if lawmakers(judges, I mean) think on these lines, it's totally alot more likely that pot will be legalized on 4th ammendment or religious grounds.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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OfflineSolo
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basdf [Re: Malachi]
    #1682182 - 07/03/03 02:29 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

From what I understand the gay debate is around the topic of marriage..not sex.

BTW, if you are for drug legalization vote libertarian~!


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: basdf [Re: Solo]
    #1682599 - 07/03/03 04:48 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I wouldn't be able to classify myself with any party. But when I do vote, it will probably be libertarian.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Zahid]
    #1683492 - 07/03/03 11:26 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Zahid said:
They're all for the war on drugs. But you must vote, otherwise Bush might get re-elected!



Dennis Kucinich is opposed to the WoD.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Learyfan]
    #1683905 - 07/03/03 02:24 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I don't agree that it's as simple as saying that he is corrupt.

Next to Bush this guy looks like a Saint (at least in my limited view), and he's also a doctor so at one point he's taken the Hippocratic Oath which I'd like to believe counts for something still these days. I think it's a little unrealistic to expect to go from one polar opposite (far-right 'Neocon') to another (far-left 'Liberal') so quickly, who knows how millions of people force-fed anti-drug propaganda (for example) would react when suddenly everything changes and they realise that they've been lied to for decades.

Maybe someone like this guy in power could at least be a start right?


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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OfflineSlapnutRob
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Edame]
    #1685244 - 07/04/03 01:07 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Well, I wouldn't be able to classify myself with any party. But when I do vote, it will probably be libertarian.



Neither do I, but when a good Democrat comes around like Dean, I give him my vote. He's not your typical Republican accomodationist Democrat.


--------------------
Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.


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OfflineSlapnutRob
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Edame]
    #1685250 - 07/04/03 01:11 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

From what I understand the gay debate is around the topic of marriage..not sex.




The "gay debate" encompasses both. Some conservatives definitely want anti-sodomy laws. These are laws that necessitate invasion of privacy to be enforced, so I don't give them any credibility, and only a crazy fundamentalist Xian (read: Rick Santorum) would be in support of them.

Quote:

Well, I wouldn't be able to classify myself with any party. But when I do vote, it will probably be libertarian.



Neither do I, but when a good Democrat comes around like Dean, I give him my vote. He's not your typical Republican accomodationist Democrat.

Quote:

Dennis Kucinich is opposed to the WoD.



Dennis Kucinich makes Dean look like a conservative. I'd support Kucinich, but sadly he's only a House rep. so he doesn't really stand a chance.... he's also just not much of a presidential figure... he looks like an little elf.


--------------------
Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Edame]
    #1685876 - 07/04/03 07:48 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1686247 - 07/04/03 12:40 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

That track record is still a hell of a lot better than Bush's.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Howard Dean? [Re: silversoul7]
    #1686444 - 07/04/03 03:00 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

It would be a fool indeed who based their opinion of Dean by what's written here. Either for or against.

It was just a bit of info I thought might be interesting to some.

I was surprised by the bit about him sealing his records though.

No-one should be allowed to judge themselves whether or not their records should be sealed and for how long.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Edame]
    #1686580 - 07/04/03 04:16 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

From libertarian pundit Neal Boortz -- http://www.boortz.com/july3(2)-03.htm

Super-leftist Howard Dean, the current Democratic frontrunner, wants Bush to send a few thousand troops to Liberal to ?head off a human right?s crisis.?? Dean, you will remember, was steadfastly opposed to our war in Iraq.? He?s all for sending troops to be in harm?s way in Liberia because, he says, ?The situation in Liberia is significantly different from the situation in Iraq.?? Bush, he says, never made the case that Iraq posed a threat to the world.? This would mean that Dean believes that Liberia does pose such a threat.

OK ? so let?s look at this a moment.

Chemical weapons?? Saddam Hussein had used them; Charles Taylor (the president of Liberia) has not.

Biological weapons?? Saddam Hussein said he had them, Charles Taylor has not.

Nuclear weapons?? Saddam?s own scientists have said that he had an ongoing nuclear program, and parts essential to such a program have been discovered in Iraq.? Liberia?? Nothing.

Bloodshed?? Saddam is probably ahead here.? Mass graves in Iraq, and tens of thousands of Kurds and Iranians dead from Saddam?s chemical weapons.? Taylor?? Undoubtedly he?s killed many ? but the count is nowhere near that of Saddam?s

Terrorists?? There is proof that Saddam has supported terrorism financially.? No such proof exists for Charles Taylor.

Dean says U.S. troops should go to Liberia because there is an ?imminent threat of serious human catastrophe.?? And there wasn?t in Iraq.? Again, the mass graves, the torture chambers, and the development of those weapons?

Dean also says ?the world community is asking the United States to exercise its leadership.?? Oh, I get it.? The U.S. can?t send troops to protect it?s own interests, but it?s OK to send them when the world community demands it.

I just can?t wait for this clown to get the Democratic nomination.

************************************************************




pinky?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Phred]
    #1686609 - 07/04/03 04:39 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yes.

Dean thinks we should go to Liberia.
France thinks we should go to Liberia.
The UN thinks we should go to Liberia.

Isn't that odd?

:smirk:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: Howard Dean? [Re: Phred]
    #1686627 - 07/04/03 04:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


Bush, he says, never made the case that Iraq posed a threat to the world. This would mean that Dean believes that Liberia does pose such a threat.




I think that his arguement falls apart right there. He's basing his entire rant on an assumption. Dean said (according to the article) :
?The situation in Liberia is significantly different from the situation in Iraq.?

'Significantly different', which the author (he got something right) then goes on to prove for us:
Quote:


OK ? so let?s look at this a moment.

Chemical weapons? Saddam Hussein had used them; Charles Taylor (the president of Liberia) has not.

Biological weapons? Saddam Hussein said he had them, Charles Taylor has not.

Nuclear weapons? Saddam?s own scientists have said that he had an ongoing nuclear program, and parts essential to such a program have been discovered in Iraq. Liberia? Nothing.

Bloodshed? Saddam is probably ahead here. Mass graves in Iraq, and tens of thousands of Kurds and Iranians dead from Saddam?s chemical weapons. Taylor? Undoubtedly he?s killed many ? but the count is nowhere near that of Saddam?s

Terrorists? There is proof that Saddam has supported terrorism financially. No such proof exists for Charles Taylor.





So having pointed out some 'significant differences' , as Dean said. He would then have us believe that actually, Dean believes that Liberia is an imminent threat to the United States?

Dean's already said it, to ?head off a human right?s crisis.? He's pointing out the rather obvious difference between an urgent Peace-keeping mission, and an outright invasion and occupation of another nation that was suffering a human rights crisis for 12 years while the US looked on.



--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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