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Shop: North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #15474344 -

also, I have personally rehabilitated a 1 year old stray that was going to be killed.

She's the one on the right laying down, her name is Cairo. She lived with us for a year before my buddy got all mixed up with dealers and pills and all that bullshit and had to take her back home to live at his mom's place. To this day, every time I see her (2-3 times a year) she goes from "vicious dog you don't wanna fuck with" to "little puppy who can't stand up because she's so excited." That's proof enough IMO that the right owner can teach a dog to love. And although she would still snap a toy breeds neck if she had the chance, she has never bitten another person to this day. And I do credit the 4 of us who raised her with that accomplishment.


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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #15474366 -

GuruBushHippie said:
There aren't many easy solutions, but killing the puppies before they have a chance to be a "good" dog or a "bad" dog isn't the appropriate option IMO.



so instead of stating what's already known why not suggest solutions, sure
animal control can keep the puppies for the rest of their lives but then
just how much love and nurturing is that caged animal going to recieve

if they cannot find the dog a good home, then what

Quote:
The breed doesn't determine the dog's good or bad behavior at all, so killing them (puppy or adult) isn't going to do any good.


this isnt breed legislation about killing specific breeds because all dogs
that cant be adopted out for what ever reason is euthanized


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #15474404 -

If the time was taken to get children to the right homes were applied to this situation, maybe the situation would improve, but that's unrealistic; i can admit to that, but it's all I've got. If I could take em all I would, but I can't afford it.

Let's hear some solutions from you.

And yes, the article that I posted (as well as your response article) was breed specific.


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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #15474415 -

maybe a mass extermination of dogs and cats in state or volunteer care is just what's needed
to end this terrible cycle they have found themselves in.  it may get bad press, but that would
be a great way to educate people on how important it is to spay and neuter.

It would be a fresh slate and I don't see it as being cruel in the least :shrug:

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: unam sanctum]
    #15474429 -

how is a mass extermination not cruel??? Those creatures were born and therefore have the right to live IMO. If the elderly and small children get attacked, I honestly don't give a fuck. We keep old people alive too long in the first place and parents ought not to let their kids run around in areas that are prone to dog maulings. Again, it all goes back to the owner of the dog, as well as the parent of the child, if one is involved.


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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #15474433 -

GuruBushHippie said:
how is a mass extermination not cruel??? Those creatures were born and therefore have the right to live IMO. If the elderly and small children get attacked, I honestly don't give a fuck. We keep old people alive too long in the first place and parents ought not to let their kids run around in areas that are prone to dog maulings. Again, it all goes back to the owner of the dog, as well as the parent of the child, if one is involved.


oh the irony

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: unam sanctum]
    #15474453 -

what irony? I'm not saying that my comment wasn't cruel, but at least i'm not suggesting geronticide or infanticide.


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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #15474479 -

you stated that creatures are born, and that you are of the opinion that they therefore have a right to live.
you continue on to state that our society "keeps" old people alive too long, and that parents are responsible
for the actions of the dog which mauls their child.  not that I disagree completely, but there's absolutely no
cohesion to your argument.  plus I would love to understand how you place a higher value on an animal's
life that that of a human's? does that feeling extend to your own life?

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #15474488 -

GuruBushHippie said:
If the time was taken to get children to the right homes were applied to this situation, maybe the situation would improve, but that's unrealistic; i can admit to that, but it's all I've got. If I could take em all I would, but I can't afford it.


ok, children, yaddayadda... we're talking about dogs, if we put the effort into finding the right homes for dogs as we do children then the dogs would die of old age, they'd end up in a foster system that frequently is worse than the home they came from or would only be adopted out to hollywood starlets

Quote:
Let's hear some solutions from you.


I'm not the one that cant see the forest for the trees, sure I'd love it
if man and dog could sit around the fire and sing kumbaya but the simple
fact of the matter is that if dogs arent adopted then they become an even
greater problem... as I've asked, what's our alternative

Quote:
And yes, the article that I posted (as well as your response article) was breed specific.


you have some kind of selective reading disability? somehow "they're
banning the bad breeds of dogs and forcing owners to bring them in to be
euthanized" is not the same as "we'll offer the more difficult to adopt
breeds up to rescues but if they cant be adopted it's business as usual"

maybe you're under the impression that everyone adopting a pit bull or
other large dog has the dogs interests at heart, maybe you believe that
all dogs get adopted and none are euthanized regardless of breed


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #15474508 -

I never understood why some people are so willing to fight tooth and nail for animals when there are actual people living in worse conditions throughout the world.


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+1 Post ٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶


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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: unam sanctum]
    #15474509 -

unam sanctum said:
you stated that creatures are born, and that you are of the opinion that they therefore have a right to live.
you continue on to state that our society "keeps" old people alive too long, and that parents are responsible
for the actions of the dog which mauls their child.  not that I disagree completely, but there's absolutely no
cohesion to your argument.  plus I would love to understand how you place a higher value on an animal's
life that that of a human's? does that feeling extend to your own life?


Any creature who is born has the right to live, yes. However, if the creature dies by a natural reason (different from natural causes) lets say, a dog attack, well then so be it. As far as the elderly are concerned, yes we KEEP THEM ALIVE for too long. When a person is supposed to die, they're supposed to die and not be kept alive by machinery and medications.

And yes, I do apply these rules of nature to my self and my dog. If she or I were to be mauled and killed by a bear while in the backcountry, then it's the way of nature. The killing of dogs by injection however, is not natural in any way, shape, or form.


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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #15474545 -

"more difficult to adopt breeds"
Still breed specific.

And dude, I know all dogs aren't going to live, much less be adopted, but all i'm saying is let nature take it's course and don't intervene. We're headed down that path in this country anyhow. Survival of the fittest is all i'm saying, but killing creatures by manmade means isn't natural. They should at least get a chance. If they get shot on someone's property after that then that's just the way of things.


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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: gzuf] * 1
    #15474562 -

gzuf said:
I never understood why some people are so willing to fight tooth and nail for animals when there are actual people living in worse conditions throughout the world.





Cuter than




Also




Feels good



Feels ripped off

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: gzuf]
    #15474573 -

gzuf said:
I never understood why some people are so willing to fight tooth and nail for animals when there are actual people living in worse conditions throughout the world.


Because wild animals do what they know from genetic processes. Domesticated animals do what they are taught by those humans who domesticated them. The creatures are innocent either way because they really don't know any different and can't intelligently place judgements on their behavior or anyone else's. People can. I'm not saying the human tragedy's afflicting the world are just or in any way pleasant, but we've brought this upon ourselves.


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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I cut straight through the forest, and that has made all the difference.

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #15474737 -

The animals that humans take care of flourish. If no one is taking care of them then how will they survive? Who will pay for it? If you want to please by all means do it if you have the resources. No one else is going to do it because people have bigger problems than caring about every stray out there. It's sad yes, but nothing anyone does is going to solve this issue unless they make more laws holding people more accountable for the pets they have. No one wants more hassle than needed when they get a pet. The law view animals as property, not as sentient beings. If they changed that and regulated everything about owning a pet that might help. No one in their right mind is going to do that tho. We love our pets, but no one wants to deal with more regulation in that area. They are animals and property. People can do what they want with their own property within reason. Until every birth of every animal is recorded, tracked and watched we will have the problem of there being to many animals for the homes we have. I guess we could force people to spay and neuter their pets, but that costs money and some people don't want their animal sterilized. This problem isn't going to ever go away. Just like some people, we can't save every dog out there. Killing off breeds that are bigger and could pose a threat to the safety of humans is what they are doing. I respect that and am saddened by it at the same time. BUT IT IS NECESSARY.

A lot of things that look bad stop worse things from happening. Sometimes you have to do shit you don't want to do for the good of the whole. It's life. It sucks but it's the truth. I don't like war and I oppose it, but it IS necessary. Shit isn't all rainbows and butterflies. This problem is cause by people being irresponsible. You aren't going to talk sense into everyone no matter how hard you try. There are some people that just don't give a fuck. Those animals come from homes where people just don't care. Nothing will change that unless you control every single thing in the pet business. You can't. It isn't possible unless you want cops arresting people for owning a dog that isn't neutered, or arresting people for breeding them. No one is going to do that. This problem will always exists.

I think our pets have it damn good. 90% of them live better than most humans ever did before this century. The ones that have it good outnumber the ones that don't by a lot. I'm not searching for stats on that, but I know our pets do WAY better than wild animals and some people. Every animal out there isn't going to live a full happy life. Nothing will change that, but at least most of them are taken care of and loved.


--------------------
~The Cultivators Motherload~

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

"There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama

Live long and prosper.


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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #15474936 -

GuruBushHippie said:
Any creature who is born has the right to live, yes. However, if the creature dies by a natural reason (different from natural causes) lets say, a dog attack, well then so be it. As far as the elderly are concerned, yes we KEEP THEM ALIVE for too long. When a person is supposed to die, they're supposed to die and not be kept alive by machinery and medications.

And yes, I do apply these rules of nature to my self and my dog. If she or I were to be mauled and killed by a bear while in the backcountry, then it's the way of nature. The killing of dogs by injection however, is not natural in any way, shape, or form.


there's no right to life, is a dog being hit by a car a natural way for a dog to die? if not then where's your protest to ban cars because a dog got killed, now suppose you dong get mauled by a bear but instead you're shot by a thug for walking down his street...


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: GuruBushHippie]
    #15475022 -

GuruBushHippie said:
gzuf said:
I never understood why some people are so willing to fight tooth and nail for animals when there are actual people living in worse conditions throughout the world.


Because wild animals do what they know from genetic processes. Domesticated animals do what they are taught by those humans who domesticated them. The creatures are innocent either way because they really don't know any different and can't intelligently place judgements on their behavior or anyone else's. People can. I'm not saying the human tragedy's afflicting the world are just or in any way pleasant, but we've brought this upon ourselves.


that's BS, what you're claiming is that a dog wouldnt be capable of
reverting back to a wild state if left to fend for himself which the
evidence overwhelmingly disagrees with since there's billions of feral
dogs around the globe, dogs that were once domesticated but have since
reverted to a wild state. dogs still have their instincts but they enjoy
the comforts man provides


dogs are also intelligent creatures with the capacity to reason, I had
dobie that took a dump in the floor, I wasnt there to let him out, he got
closet from the bathroom and brought them in to cover his pile because he
knew he'd get into trouble for it even though I rarely ever scolded him,
my current dog is the same way, she knows the things that will get her
into trouble and almost all the time she'll avoid doing these things but
sometimes she does and she'll hide to escape being scolded. they are more
than capable of rationalization, I spend enough time with my dogs to know
this. surely you see this intelligence in your own dog


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #15475208 -

Mad_Larkin said:
Prisoner#1 said:
would you prefer the other option, the one where people are being attacked by
uncontrolled populations of wild dogs... that sounds very likable


It would be a lot more entertaining...


:whathesaid:


--------------------
"I have no way of knowing whether you, who eventually will read this record, like stories or not. If you do not, no doubt you have turned these pages without attention. I confess that I love them. Indeed, it often seems to me that of all the good things in the world, the only ones humanity can claim for itself are stories and music; the rest, mercy, beauty, sleep, clean water and hot food (as the Ascian would have said) are all the work of the Increate. Thus, stories are small things indeed in the scheme of the universe, but it is hard not to love best what is our own—hard for me, at least."

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: blujay]
    #15475698 -

blujay said:
Presumed problem being way, way too many stray animals becoming a public nuisance and a threat in the form of a disease vector.

Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture. Obviously they would stop killing the animals after the population was decreased sufficiently. Remember, we created them. These animals don't survive except for symbiotic relationships with mankind. When we starve, they'll starve with us (and be eaten).

It is, however, very good reason to have your animal chipped so that they can never evade identification and become mistakenly killed.

I'm not saying it's pretty, or that I am happy about it. It's just the grim reality of life as we have it set up. If none of us kept domesticated pets PETA wouldn't have a reason to exist...


I think the absurdity comes more from singling out breeds that have gotten a bad rep than it does the act itself.

It's a holocaust...for dogs....

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Re: The Extermination of Puppies in NC, USA [Re: MisterMuscaria]
    #15475836 -

Comparing mass human genocide with the killing of over populated unwanted dogs is ridiculous.


--------------------
~The Cultivators Motherload~

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." -Robert A. Heinlein

"There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies.
My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness."-Dalai Lama

Live long and prosper.


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